Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

[digger]

No, I did not. Anti-androgens are frequently used with a wide variety of paraphilias to reduce the sexual urge, not to completely eliminate it. The objective is to reduce the urge to a manageable level, where the individual is able to override their desires and behave in a non-harmful (to them or others) fashion.

I would only support chemical castration for convicted sex offenders who are likely to re-offend.

\

So just to be clear, the mandatory antiandrogen treatments are only for people who have committed no crimes. Would you happen to know the suicide rate for people receiving this treatment?

Does this work any better, or cause any less harm, than gay conversion therapy?

 

[Dr. Keith]

Well, I think there's a rather obvious difference here that gets glossed over. The "Destigmatize Pedophilia" groups, such as Prostasia, advocate for the availability of child sex dolls and animated or digital imagery of child pornography as "treatment" to divert the attraction to children away from actual kids. Jumping on your compulsive gambling analogy, that would be like advocating that people with a gambling problem should have access to online gambling games that don't use real money in order to mitigate their problem.

I understand you anger at those groups but my limited reading indicates that this professor is not doing the same sort of advocacy.

I’m happy to be shown to be wrong about that.

And man, what a crap field to find yourself involved in. I get wanting to help people with the problems they have and not all problems are pretty. But proctologist is looking like a better option at this point.

 

[Emily's Cat]

\

So just to be clear, the mandatory antiandrogen treatments are only for people who have committed no crimes. Would you happen to know the suicide rate for people receiving this treatment?

Does this work any better, or cause any less harm, than gay conversion therapy?

Did you actually read what I wrote? I don't think you did.

 

[Graham2001]

Something from the Canadian 'National Post' newspaper, the author is Lawence Krauss, covering a controversy in Germany when someone wrote a paper criticising the idea of racial quotas as a means to ensure 'equity'.


The key point being a policy Krauss quotes and I will reproduce the quote as he gives it, with the same emphasis.

“Following the publication of the article by (Tomáš Hudlický) in (German journal) Angewandte Chemie and the identification of a potentially offensive image in a journal, a set of guidelines has been produced by RSC staff to help us minimise the risk of publishing inappropriate or otherwise offensive content. Offence is a subjective matter and sensitivity to it spans a considerable range; however, we bear in mind that it is the perception of the recipient that we should consider, regardless of the author’s intention . … Please consider whether or not any content (words, depictions or imagery) might have the potential to cause offence, referring to the guidelines as needed. ” (italics mine)

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/lawrence-krauss-the-offence-offensive

 

[Puppycow]

Fordham U. prof fired after mixing up two black students in class

My mother mixes up her own children. I've done similar things myself, mixing up people's names. I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with race. There may be something else going on, but the University refuses to say what that might be:

Fordham spokesman Bob Howe told The Post the school “takes personnel matters very seriously,” but claimed “media representations regarding this issue do not reflect the facts in Dr. Trogan’s case.” He refused to elaborate.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Fordham U. prof fired after mixing up two black students in class

My mother mixes up her own children. I've done similar things myself, mixing up people's names. I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with race. There may be something else going on, but the University refuses to say what that might be:

I dunno, seems like this might be the reason:

Hours after what he called an “innocent mistake,” lecturer Christopher Trogan, 46, sent a rambling, nine-page email to students in his Composition II classes explaining the faux pas — and defending, without being asked, his “entire life” of working on “issues of justice, equality, and inclusion,” the campus newspaper reported.

...

Several students said Trogan’s bizarre overreaction, rather than making a simple apology, made matters worse for him.

https://nypost.com/2021/12/11/fordham-prof-fired-for-confusing-two-black-students-in-class/

 

[angrysoba]

Fordham U. prof fired after mixing up two black students in class

My mother mixes up her own children. I've done similar things myself, mixing up people's names. I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with race. There may be something else going on, but the University refuses to say what that might be:

I dunno, seems like this might be the reason:



https://nypost.com/2021/12/11/fordham-prof-fired-for-confusing-two-black-students-in-class/

It sounds like a massive over-reaction to fire someone for mixing up students regardless of the message he wrote afterwards, which sounds unnecessary anyway.

 

[lionking]

Something from the Canadian 'National Post' newspaper, the author is Lawence Krauss, covering a controversy in Germany when someone wrote a paper criticising the idea of racial quotas as a means to ensure 'equity'.


The key point being a policy Krauss quotes and I will reproduce the quote as he gives it, with the same emphasis.





https://nationalpost.com/opinion/lawrence-krauss-the-offence-offensive

Stop the world. I want to get off.

University in Alberta, linda manyguns, eschews the use of capital letters, except when it comes to Indigenous people, because capitalization is a hurtful symbol of western hierarchy

.

I now understand how my wise, thoughtful and intelligent mother-in-law felt when she said years ago “I’m glad I’m not living for much longer”.

This crap is sickening.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It sounds like a massive over-reaction to fire someone for mixing up students regardless of the message he wrote afterwards, which sounds unnecessary anyway.

Is there any evidence this is why he was fired?

Reading between the lines here it kinda seems like this guy was having a mental break of some kind, making mountains out of molehills with his deranged behavior.

 

[dirtywick]

It sounds like a massive over-reaction to fire someone for mixing up students regardless of the message he wrote afterwards, which sounds unnecessary anyway.

I agree you shouldn’t be fired for mixing up two students. But if the apology is long and crazy enough it could be fireable. And if it was, and it’s being framed as being fired for mixing up the students when it’s in fact for unprompted erratic behavior after the fact, well I might just consider that dishonest. And as nebulous as cancel culture is, this thread is basically become about people losing their jobs for various reasons unrelated to cancel culture in any meaningful way. This is one of those cases.

 

[Stout]

Is there any evidence this is why he was fired?

Reading between the lines here it kinda seems like this guy was having a mental break of some kind, making mountains out of molehills with his deranged behavior.

Here's the problem.

Sims said the section of the email that listed his credentials and “everything he has done for minorities” gave her the impression of a white savior complex. The other first-year student interviewed by The Observer agreed with this assessment.

And

A faculty member at Fordham who has had interactions with Trogan on more than one occasion described him as a person who is “very good at stirring up energy around him but not very mindful of the consequences, for himself or others.” The faculty member, who asked for anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the topic, added that Trogan is “reactive, not reflective.”

Source

Christopher Trogan slapped down his social justice creds instead of kowtowing while he was gettin' told.

 

[angrysoba]

Stop the world. I want to get off.


.

I now understand how my wise, thoughtful and intelligent mother-in-law felt when she said years ago “I’m glad I’m not living for much longer”.

This crap is sickening.

I don’t know about that. How long ago did your mother-in-law say this? Personally I refuse to agree to the whole “the world has gone crazy!” narrative given that you will probably find people of every generation saying the same thing. I expect the elderly said exactly the same thing about the Sixties and how young men were growing their hair long, refusing to join the army to fight for their country against the Commie gooks and in fact seem to be Commies themselves ungrateful little ***** who didn’t recognize the sacrifices of their fathers and grandfathers and who blast their eardrums with Satanic noise….etc….

Of course we understand much of that as being a moral panic, etc….

Besides, who can read a name like “linda manyguns” and keep a straight face?

 

[angrysoba]

That said….

I agree you shouldn’t be fired for mixing up two students. But if the apology is long and crazy enough it could be fireable. And if it was, and it’s being framed as being fired for mixing up the students when it’s in fact for unprompted erratic behavior after the fact, well I might just consider that dishonest. And as nebulous as cancel culture is, this thread is basically become about people losing their jobs for various reasons unrelated to cancel culture in any meaningful way. This is one of those cases.

Come on now, if the facts are presented accurately, a big if with the NY Post I’ll concede, or even if we assume that the apology was long and crazy-sounding, and perhaps even more so if the professor is having some kind of mental health issues then it seems to me to be a deeply insensitive move to fire someone for this situation. I could understand putting someone on leave if it turns out that they are having mental health issues. I get it. This is America and people can be pretty much fired at will without any pretext. Somehow that doesn’t make things better. In fact I would think that this is exactly what should get cancel culture people more active about advocating for unions with teeth. Of course much of the time the cancel culture narrative comes from the right who are not genuinely interested in people keeping their jobs, only protecting reactionary views (or views mistaken for being reactionary).

 

[angrysoba]

Here's the problem.



And



Source

Christopher Trogan slapped down his social justice creds instead of kowtowing while he was gettin' told.

I guess everyone’s narrative is confirmed by this incident. As I said in my previous post:

Prior to unionization and our first contract, contingent faculty (adjuncts and lecturers) were always considered in an ‘at-will’ relationship to the University and could be let go at any time without explanation, presumption of reappointment, or recourse to the grievance process, no matter how long or how many classes they had taught at Fordham,” Foley said.
If lecturers are part of at-will employment, they can be fired for “any reason or no reason at all,” according to Jeffrey Hirsch, a researcher and professor of labor and employment law at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Law.
In reference to Trogan’s case, Hirsch told The Observer that having at-will status versus being covered by a union’s just cause protections can make a big difference.

 

[Stout]

That said….



Come on now, if the facts are presented accurately, a big if with the NY Post......

They're not, even the Daily Mail has better reporting.

First there was the name mix up and on that same day the professor sent out the white savior email in response to students email(s) suggesting he made the mistake because the students were black. Students who may, or may not have been wearing masks.

About a month passed, professor was fired, supposedly over the content in the white savior email.

After the professor was made unemployed, then he sent out the 9 page email

Then the university told him to stay away.

 

[angrysoba]

They're not, even the Daily Mail has better reporting.

First there was the name mix up and on that same day the professor sent out the white savior email in response to students email(s) suggesting he made the mistake because the students were black. Students who may, or may not have been wearing masks.

About a month passed, professor was fired, supposedly over the content in the white savior email.

After the professor was made unemployed, then he sent out the 9 page email

Then the university told him to stay away.

Yeah. I was also wondering if it could have something to do with masks as well. Students are likely to be wearing masks in universities which definitely would make it more difficult to identify them.

Anyway, we can’t know for sure what this is about because the university apparently doesn’t have to give a reason given the employment law for his position. It is a pretty terrible way to lose a job unless there is something we haven’t heard about.

 

[Cain]

Besides, who can read a name like “linda manyguns” and keep a straight face?

typical patriarchal behavior, what with mocking a strong, proud, Indigenous wom*n.

 

[dirtywick]

That said….



Come on now, if the facts are presented accurately, a big if with the NY Post I’ll concede, or even if we assume that the apology was long and crazy-sounding, and perhaps even more so if the professor is having some kind of mental health issues then it seems to me to be a deeply insensitive move to fire someone for this situation. I could understand putting someone on leave if it turns out that they are having mental health issues. I get it. This is America and people can be pretty much fired at will without any pretext. Somehow that doesn’t make things better. In fact I would think that this is exactly what should get cancel culture people more active about advocating for unions with teeth. Of course much of the time the cancel culture narrative comes from the right who are not genuinely interested in people keeping their jobs, only protecting reactionary views (or views mistaken for being reactionary).

Well yeah cancel culture outrage is just a big joke

But I can’t agree with the rest of that. It’s already established that it was framed that he was fired for mixing up names when it was really the catalyst for what appears to be unhinged behavior. Without knowing more about his history at the school or the contents of the letter I’m not willing to concede anything right or wrong was done. Just that we’ve been presented with a narrative that’s untrue. Which is often the case with the stuff that pops up in this thread over and over.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I guess everyone’s narrative is confirmed by this incident. As I said in my previous post:

Well, dude's got a union, the only real antidote to "cancel culture" real or imagined.

I'm willing to make a compromise with right wing reactionaries, I'll pretend "cancel culture" is a real menace if their response is to unionize their workplaces to prevent arbitrary firings.

 

[Darat]

Well yeah cancel culture outrage is just a big joke
But I can’t agree with the rest of that. It’s already established that it was framed that he was fired for mixing up names when it was really the catalyst for what appears to be unhinged behavior. Without knowing more about his history at the school or the contents of the letter I’m not willing to concede anything right or wrong was done. Just that we’ve been presented with a narrative that’s untrue. Which is often the case with the stuff that pops up in this thread over and over.

And for anyone over the age of 35 it is obviously a rehash of "political correctness gone mad", the previous right-wing fearmongering strawman.