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Discussion: Transwomen are not women (Part 7)

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Elaedith said:
If sex is continuously distributed, what is the scale on the horizontal axis? Perhaps there is some meaning of 'bimodal' other than a statistical one.
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I'm not sure if this helps, but from the source I quoted:
if you do a frequency plot with “sex” on the X axis and “frequency of individuals conforming to that sex” on the Y axis, you get a huge peak at “male”, another huge peak at “female”, and then a few tiny blips in between that conform to hermaphrodites or intersexes.
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Paul2 said:
I'm not sure if this helps, but from the source I quoted:
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It's still unclear what quantifiable phenomenon Dr. Coyne is mapping along the x-axis.

One possible candidate would be the number of traits associated with a virilized phenotype, e.g. external testes, facial hair, etc.
 
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d4m10n said:
It's still unclear what quantifiable phenomenon Dr. Coyne is mapping along the x-axis.

One possible candidate would be the number of traits associated with a virilized phenotype, e.g. external testes, facial hair, etc.
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I am used to thinking of a 'mode' as a property of a continuous variable, but I suppose the term can also apply to a categorical one (unlike mean and median). So the X axis does not necessarily need to be quantifiable in the sense of being an 'amount of male/female-ness'. It still seems a little odd to refer to something that is basically binary as bimodal, due to a miniscule number of cases that don't fit precisely into one of two categories (and in most of those cases, there is still one of two developmental pathways that was affected).
 
Elaedith said:
I am used to thinking of a 'mode' as a property of a continuous variable, but I suppose the term can also apply to a categorical one (unlike mean and median). So the X axis does not necessarily need to be quantifiable in the sense of being an 'amount of male/female-ness'. It still seems a little odd to refer to something that is basically binary as bimodal, due to a miniscule number of cases that don't fit precisely into one of two categories (and in most of those cases, there is still one of two developmental pathways that was affected).
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Maybe this discussion should be moved here ?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Some trans people are not very nice, some even engage in criminal action like death/rape threats. This is true of all people.

Since when do we decide who gets civil rights based on the actions of a lunatic fringe? Somewhere out there some gay person sent a death threat, some black person sent a rape threat, some woman mailed a pipe bomb. How is this relevant to whether or not entire classes of people deserve civil rights?
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Aren't you the one who keeps bringing up far-right crazies?
 
d4m10n said:
We all remember when the far right crazies stopped the Gender Recognition Act 2004 in its tracks.
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On a more local level, the far right crazies prevented a school board in Loudoun County, Virginia, from passign a policy demanding that students be recognized according to their gender identity.

Oh...wait.

ETA: And, on that note, I saw a picture ot the Loudoun County rapist on line. I won't post it here, but google should be abie to find it. The face is pixelated, at least in what I saw.

I'm really not sure why we would call that person "he". "He" seemed trying pretty hard to look feminine. I mean, the court found that there was a penis, and rape, and such, but that, I'm told, is irrelevant. And the school officials who talked to his mom thought that he identified as female.

Now....the school officials thought he identified as female, and one of Joe Biden's first acts in office was to sign an executive order to treat trans people as their identified gender. I'm pretty sure that person was using the girls' bathroom for a while. I haven't confirmed it, but it was sure seem odd if (s)he were not using it. It seems to me like if (s)he were using the boys' room, the school would be pretty sure that (s)he identified as a boy. Do you suppose for a minute that the school officials that thought (s)he identified as a girl would not follow Department of Education guidelines? It seems a bit far fetched they would do that.

I don't know. Does your girl card get rescinded if you commit a rape? I know that people insist the incident has nothing to do with transgender issues, but it sure seems to like either
a) a transgender girl raped a cisgender girl in the girls' bathroom or
b) a cisgender boy pretended to be a transgender girl, and used the girls' bathroom, ultimately raping a girl in that bathroom.

Unless it was a gender neutral bathroom. Most of the stories that I have seen indicate that it was a girls' bathroom, but I have seen at least one that identified it as a "transgender" bathroom.
 
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The "ambiguous statements" thread made me realize that "transwomen are women" is ridiculously ambiguous. Hinging as it does on a meaning of women that none of its proponents can define.
 
theprestige said:
The "ambiguous statements" thread made me realize that "transwomen are women" is ridiculously ambiguous. Hinging as it does on a meaning of women that none of its proponents can define.
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The social justice league definition of woman is "anyone who identifies as a woman," so "transwomen are women" is true by definition. ;)
 
d4m10n said:
The social justice league definition of woman is "anyone who identifies as a woman," so "transwomen are women" is true by definition. ;)
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Does it help you to reinforce your own stereotypes, misconceptions and bigotry (and those of your fellow travellers) to write stuff like this?

Perhaps this document may help with your incomprehension and mockery* - it sets out the official position of the UK Government, and educates you as to what the UK considers "a woman" to be (and how/why it's separate from "a female"):

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/envi...isthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21


(And I presume that where you refer to "the social justice league".... you mean to write: "various major global governments, including for example the UK and the US Federal Govt, as well as mainstream medical science". That doesn't fit with your agenda though, I guess?).

As you say: ;)

:rolleyes:


* Though history and precedent in this thread suggest, of course, that it will actually help you with neither.
 
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LondonJohn said:
Does it help you to reinforce your own stereotypes, misconceptions and bigotry (and those of your fellow travellers) to write stuff like this?

Perhaps this document may help with your incomprehension and mockery* - it sets out the official position of the UK Government, and educates you as to what the UK considers "a woman" to be (and how/why it's separate from "a female"):

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/envi...isthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21


(And I presume that where you refer to "the social justice league".... you mean to write: "various major global governments, including for example the UK and the US Federal Govt, as well as mainstream medical science". That doesn't fit with your agenda though, I guess?).

As you say: ;)

:rolleyes:


* Though history and precedent in this thread suggest, of course, that it will actually help you with neither.
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The official position is circular nonsense.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
far right crazies wield much more political and practical power than any trans boogieman ever will.
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LondonJohn said:
(And I presume that where you refer to "the social justice league".... you mean to write: "various major global governments, including for example the UK and the US Federal Govt, as well as mainstream medical science". That doesn't fit with your agenda though, I guess?).
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These two statements can't both be right.
 
Matthew Best said:
That says "gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself".
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And it doesn't appear to define woman or man.

Unlike, for example, this page:
By ‘woman’ we refer to any person who identifies as a woman.
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I think it's telling that some folks will resort to accusations of bigotry when asked to say what they mean by common words at the crux of the debate.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Do trans trolls like Jessica Yaniv or nobodies on twitter making threats enjoy government support for their activities?
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Yes.

Well, sort of.

Here's the thing. No one is going to stand on the floor of the House of Commons and say, "Trans women should have the right to sue anyone who refuses to was their balls!" No governor is going to sign a law and say, "With this law, we're going to ensure that 52 year old people on the sex offender list will finally be able to walk around the women's spa without having to hide their penises as if they should be ashamed." No school board is going to say, "Why should our students have to prove who they are just to use the girls' bathroom? Those stories about rape or whatever are just anecdotes!" No one will point to those as desired outcomes, but they are inevitable outcomes.

Those bogeymen all did what they did with the full support of the government.
 
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