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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part III

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The Man said:
As already cited multiple times they were "notified" when the EPIRBs were found, as well as tested to be in proper working order and just not switched on.

The switch, when off, keeps the unit from activating when separated from the mount.

EPIRB: a full explanation
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So why would Commander Montonen for JAIC request Bodö to search for a disappeared message?

I will get into my listening pose.
 
Vixen said:
Man up and admit the EPIRB's were automatically activated.
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Rude.

Why do you think MRCC Commander Montonen...
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Asked and answered. Why do you think he's an expert on what equipment some particular ship had fitted?

In addition, yet another source...
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A secondary source, vanity-published and sold on Amazon. Who is Jack A. Nelson, and why should he be considered an authority on emergency beacons?
 
Vixen said:
I made a mistake about whereabouts Mariella had her helipad. I had erroneously assumed it was like Viking Sally's the scene of a murder in 1987, for which a Danish man, then aged 18-years-old was recently being tried earlier this year in Finland
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It had anchor winches, capstans and a radar mast on the forecastle
It was the same ship as the Estonia under an earlier name.
It never had a helicopter pad on the forecastle.
 
Vixen said:
Man up and admit the EPIRB's were automatically activated.
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All evidence shows they were not. They were of a model that has no automatic activation, they were recovered and operated as designed when turned on.

Why do you think MRCC Commander Montonen requested Bodö Baltic Satellite Sea alert station requested a search for a 'disappeared message'?

HS
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Because they assumed that if the crew of the Estonia were half way competent they would have activated the buoys.

In addition, yet another source confirms the EPIRB's were automatically-activated.

From: Flashes in the Night
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it says released. Not activated.

Do you even read what you post?
 
The Man said:
EPIRB: a full explanation
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That's a full explanation as of 2021. Find a full explanation as of 1994. Now that emersion-activated EPIRBs are a requirement, there's no point in manufacturing any that aren't compliant with the law. Pointing out that in 2021 it's a matter of fact that all EPIRBs must be immersion activated does nothing to quell the notion that in 1994 there were different modes of activation possible, and no compulsion to upgrade.
 
Vixen said:
Man up and admit the EPIRB's were automatically activated.

Why do you think MRCC Commander Montonen requested Bodö Baltic Satellite Sea alert station requested a search for a 'disappeared message'?

HS

In addition, yet another source confirms the EPIRB's were automatically-activated.

From: Flashes in the Night
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Vixen said:
It was not a manufacturing fault.
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No it wasn't. They worked exactly as designed.
If they had been automatic and both had failed it would have been big news.
It would have implications for every other buoy manufactured by the same company.
Instead they just weren't activated by the crew when the ship sank.
That is why SOLAS regulations were changed the next year.
 
Vixen said:
I made a mistake about whereabouts Mariella had her helipad. I had erroneously assumed it was like Viking Sally's the scene of a murder in 1987, for which a Danish man, then aged 18-years-old was recently being tried earlier this year in Finland, now in his fifties. However on relooking it up, the area was actually to the stern of the ship although in my mind's eye it was at the fo'c'sle..
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No, Vixen.

If your thought process had been as above, you'd have written something like "...to prepare the helicopter pads on their fo'c'sle (LOL) decks".

But you didn't write something like that.

You wrote "...to prepare their fo'c'sle (LOL) decks as helicopter pads"

The fact that you either a) cannot understand the difference between those two phrases, or b) you can understand the difference but you are embarrassingly trying to style it out nevertheless, is not particularly conducive to good debate.
 
Vixen said:
Man up and admit the EPIRB's were automatically activated.

Why do you think MRCC Commander Montonen requested Bodö Baltic Satellite Sea alert station requested a search for a 'disappeared message'?

HS

In addition, yet another source confirms the EPIRB's were automatically-activated.

From: Flashes in the Night
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Oh brother.

I'll try to be charitable and say: "repeated comprehension disorder".
 
Vixen said:
Citation please of when Montonen or the JAIC were notified the EPIRB's were of the manual-activation type only? They never say this. Lehtola merely brushes it aside by saying it would not have speeded up rescue anyway, which is not really the point.
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They were found to be of manual activation type when they were recovered.

You have posted previously that they were of a model with the 'F' designation. That is not an automatic model
 
Vixen said:
So why would Commander Montonen for JAIC request Bodö to search for a disappeared message?

I will get into my listening pose.
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You'd have to ask that Commander. Don't strain yourself simply posing.


If you are however asking about the article you linked before it says...

Estonian and Finnish experts tested buoys detached from sunken Estonia on Tuesday at the icebreaker Tarmo. According to Estonian radio, the buoys sent a four-hour radio message that should arrive via satellite at the ground station. Next, we want to investigate the operation of the ground stations to find out where the auto-triggered alarm message disappeared.
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"Next" meaning after the testing. They are looking to the "operation of the ground stations to find out where the auto-triggered" from the testing "message disappeared". That is how far into the system it got before being dismissed, at the ground stations due to it being a deliberate test.
 
Vixen said:
Captain Mäkelä of Silja Europa said plainly (and Finns are a plain-speaking lot) it could not have been caused by just one factor, in his view. For example, the bow visor falling off. He is not the only expert who is sceptical.

Arild Winge, who was working at Berga naval base in Stockholm. He had been on duty when the MS Jan Heweliusz went down in January 1993. If you recall, that vessel, also a car ferry, capsized and floated upside down for about five days before sinking, and thus, he was expecting to see something similar as he approached theEstonia and was surprised to see only bits of debris and lots of life rafts and vests, instead.

Likewise, both Europa and Mariella approached cautiously for fear of striking an upturned vessel.
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And their personal levels of disbelief - irrespective of whether or not they'd been influenced by a single other sinking - are neither here nor there. The fact is, and remains, that there's zero reason why a ship that sank in the way the Estonia sank (ie from excessive water ingress via an open bow mechanism onto a bulkhead-free vehicle deck and down to lower decks) should ever have floated upside-down after capsizing.
 
Vixen said:
So why would Commander Montonen for JAIC request Bodö to search for a disappeared message?

I will get into my listening pose.
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Because they were not found until the 2 October by two Estonian fishing vessel and the beacons were switched off when found.
 
Vixen said:
He is not going to posit a theory he is not qualified to do so is he, being a public figure, just as Seppelin said he didn't think the radio frequencies were jammed. This is called only speaking from one's own range of experience.

From Mäkelä's own experience and expectations, he expected to find Estonia overturned.
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And it turned out that he was positing a theory he was not qualified to give. Even though he's (gasp) Finnish.
 
JayUtah said:
That's a full explanation as of 2021. Find a full explanation as of 1994. Now that emersion-activated EPIRBs are a requirement, there's no point in manufacturing any that aren't compliant with the law. Pointing out that in 2021 it's a matter of fact that all EPIRBs must be immersion activated does nothing to quell the notion that in 1994 there were different modes of activation possible, and no compulsion to upgrade.
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Some models have a tab over the manual activation switch that needs to be broken of before it can be operated, these tend to be the types with an independent battery test switch.
Older models had to be turned on to test the battery, these ran through a battery check before transmitting.
A delay is built in to allow activation for battery testing and also to allow for accidental activation.
All the automatic models also have a manual switch. It is best practice to activate the buoy with the switch and then put it overboard rather than to rely on the automatic activation after the ship has sunk.
 
Vixen said:
If I was being interviewed in my professional capacity for a national newspaper or TV channel, I would be mindful of my responsibilities in that capacity.

If I am on a discussion forum then I am free to express my opinion, just as you are.
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So you don't believe you have any level of personal responsibility/integrity to conduct debate on here in an intellectually-honest manner (a big part of which is knowing what you don't know, and deferring readily to the judgement of those who know much more about the subject than you do)? I see.

Finally...... an explanation for the deluge of under-researched, improperly-sourced, low-information conjecture from you. Thank you.
 
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