Discussion: Transwomen are not women (Part 7)

[Meadmaker]

Deleted.(I decided that if anyone wanted my opinion on that subject, they would ask.)

 

[TurkeysGhost]

BBC has retracted the paragraphs about Lily Cade from the original story, leaving an extremely vague editorial note explaining the change:

The BBC has acknowledged "inappropriate behavior" by anti-transgender activist Lily Cade and removed her contribution to a controversial article published last week which many have labeled transphobic and dangerous.

...


"We have updated this article, published last week, to remove a contribution from one individual in light of comments she has published on blog posts in recent days, which we have now been able to verify," they continued.

"We acknowledge that an admission of inappropriate behavior by the same contributor should have been included in the original article."

Cade has not only since called for trans people to be lynched (citing specific people by name), but has previously been multiply accused of raping other women, a claim she has admitted is true.

Cade herself has faced accusations of sexual assault by multiple women, Pink News reports. Referencing the accusations on her blog, she wrote: "If a rapist is someone who is accused in public of sexual misconduct, then I am a rapist."

In the days following the publication of the article, Cade published a blog post that advocated for violence against trans women and called them "evil, "rapists," and "predators."

https://www.newsweek.com/bbc-acknowledges-inappropriate-behaviour-lily-cade-1646025

 

[TheGoldcountry]

I'm saying it's not disingenuous, which merely implies insincerity.

I think it's a genuinely revolting and calculated plan of attack.

It also leads to the round-and-round circular argument displayed in this thread, when people ignore reality just so they can pretend you're making things up just to be a bigot. It gets tiresome.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Nope, it's a calculated and concerted effort to reinforce the nonsensical idea that gender is like race - immutable.

The fact that we have lots of evidence proving beyond doubt that you can't choose race but can choose gender is just ignored.

Do you think trans people are simply choosing to be trans?

I mean, I suppose that's true in the sense that they could suppress their behavior if they had to, much like how gay people could choose not to act upon homosexual impulses. Just because an immutable characteristic can be successfully concealed to the public(in some cases) does not make them any less immutable.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Do you think trans people are simply choosing to be trans?

It is just a lifestyle choice like the gays.

 

[theprestige]

Cade has not only since called for trans people to be lynched (citing specific people by name), but has previously been multiply accused of raping other women, a claim she has admitted is true.

Her "admission":

"If a rapist is someone who is accused in public of sexual misconduct, then I am a rapist."​

Either ST cannot into beginner logic, or he's just lying. Either way, I don't see this helping his cause any. At least not with this audience.

I wonder if anyone at all on this forum has become more sympathetic to the plight of transsexuals, as a result of the efforts on their behalf being displayed in this thread.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Her "admission":

"If a rapist is someone who is accused in public of sexual misconduct, then I am a rapist."​

Either ST cannot into beginner logic, or he's just lying. Either way, I don't see this helping his cause any. At least not with this audience.

I wonder if anyone at all on this forum has become more sympathetic to the plight of transsexuals, as a result of the efforts on their behalf being displayed in this thread.

I provided the quote, make your own judgement.

This source has her non-denial at longer length:

She referenced the allegations in one of her blog posts, which read: “If a rapist is someone who is accused in public of sexual misconduct, then I am a rapist.

“So, too, are three of your last four presidents, the men who sit in your halls of power, and the men who make judgments over your laws. So are all of your heroes, and you know it, and you don’t care.

“If a rapist is someone who pays women to have sex that they don’t actually want to have, then I am a goddamn ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ rapist, and your world is run by rapists.”

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/11/03/lily-cade-bbc-trans-transphobia/

Interpret her non-denial and deflection however you see fit.

ETA: Ironically enough, she is accused of assaulting another woman in a public bathroom.

 

[theprestige]

Do you think trans people are simply choosing to be trans?

I'm sure some of them are, just like some people simply choose to adopt a fursona.

I mean, I suppose that's true in the sense that they could suppress their behavior if they had to, much like how gay people could choose not to act upon homosexual impulses. Just because an immutable characteristic can be successfully concealed to the public(in some cases) does not make them any less immutable.

Begging the question that it's always an immutable characteristic.

And also begging the question that there's anything to suppress. Gender identity is an entirely internal self-perception, right? Nobody has to run around telling the world, "I think I'm a woman!" They can just go right ahead and think they're a woman.

Especially since none of them can explain what such a thought is supposed to mean to anyone else, or what anyone else is supposed to do about it if they find out.

Also, most people, gay or straight*, don't go around expressing their sexuality to the world at large. They tell potentially interested parties if and when it seems like that information is called for. They're not repressing anything by keeping their sexuality to themselves in most circumstances. In fact it would be super weird if they didn't.

---
*I say gay or straight, but of course there are a multitude of other sexualities, most of which do seem to be focused mainly on expressing said sexuality to the world at large. And yes, it is super weird.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Also, most people, gay or straight*, don't go around expressing their sexuality to the world at large. They tell potentially interested parties if and when it seems like that information is called for. They're not repressing anything by keeping their sexuality to themselves in most circumstances. In fact it would be super weird if they didn't.

---
*I say gay or straight, but of course there are a multitude of other sexualities, most of which do seem to be focused mainly on expressing said sexuality to the world at large. And yes, it is super weird.

I'm curious what planet you live on where heterosexuality isn't constantly being expressed publicly, both by individuals and by systems. It's not always in the crassest terms, but the assumption of heterosexual couplings is constantly communicated nearly everywhere all the time.

Perhaps you don't notice it

 

[theprestige]

Ah yes, the 'prostitution is rape' school of feminism.

 

[Meadmaker]

Her "admission":

"If a rapist is someone who is accused in public of sexual misconduct, then I am a rapist."​

Either ST cannot into beginner logic, or he's just lying. Either way, I don't see this helping his cause any. At least not with this audience.

I wonder if anyone at all on this forum has become more sympathetic to the plight of transsexuals, as a result of the efforts on their behalf being displayed in this thread.

If you go back a couple of years, I have.

Lately, not so much.

 

[The Atheist]

Do you think trans people are simply choosing to be trans?

As I've specifically stated several times in this thread, some people make a deliberate choice to be, or appear, trans.

We know this, because some of those then choose not to be and go back to where/what they were.

If you have a tidy way of deciding which people choose and which don't, let me know.

I'm sure the wide majority of people who transition don't think they're choosing, but it's also unquestionably the case that some know it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

'Sex = factual definition based on biology', Yes I agree.

'Gender = Social Stereotypes', I'm not sure about that. I think society has caused people to conform to gender stereotypes, but there's no reason to, just be yourself.

I agree... which is 1) why I consider myself a gender atheist, and 2) why I object to the ideology that makes a person's gender 'identity' be considered immutable, innate and beyond question.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Do you think trans people are simply choosing to be trans?

Some of them, yes. Or more precisely, some are claiming a transgender identity, without actually having any dysphoria or any resonance with the opposite sex at all.

For example, I think that something like 95% of the prisoners claiming to be transgender right now are doing it so that either a) they get moved to a less dangerous-to-them ward or b) to gain access to victims.

I think maybe 5% of them are genuinely transgender and some degree of accommodation should be made.

 

[Ziggurat]

Do you think trans people are simply choosing to be trans?

In general? No.

In some cases? Yes, probably.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm curious what planet you live on where heterosexuality isn't constantly being expressed publicly

It's called "Earth".

Seriously, next time you go to the grocery store, look at the cashier, for example. Does the cashier who checks you out express to you whether they are heterosexual, homosexual, or something else? Because I don't think it's ever happened to me. Oh, I might have my suspicions, but I don't actually know. And sure, I do see public expressions of sexuality, for example couples kissing in public. But constantly? Yeah, no. Not even close.

 

[Meadmaker]

It's called "Earth".

Seriously, next time you go to the grocery store, look at the cashier, for example. Does the cashier who checks you out express to you whether they are heterosexual, homosexual, or something else?

It depends what you mean by "checks you out".

Lately, I can't really say.

 

[d4m10n]

Part of an interview Kathleen Stock gave to BBC Woman's Hour on Radio 4

Just listened to it, fairly good segment. I am left wondering if Sussex U. could've done anything better.

I notice no-one's yet managed to pinpoint exactly what it is she said to deserve the treatment she got.

That would require actually reading what she's written.

 

[p0lka]

I agree... which is 1) why I consider myself a gender atheist, and 2) why I object to the ideology that makes a person's gender 'identity' be considered immutable, innate and beyond question.

Yeah, there's no theism in gender? What does gender atheist mean?
Let us ignore 2) for now and talk about 1.

 

[d4m10n]

Yeah, there's no theism in gender? What does gender atheist mean?

Pretty sure EC means agenderist, that is, someone who doesn't believe in the tenets of gender ideology.