Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part III

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LondonJohn said:
Yeah but..... in the hands of a conspiracy theorist, the JAIC Report is a farrago of lies, misdirections and cover-ups.

So in the hands of a conspiracy theorist, what the JAIC Report wrote about the EPIRBs is a lie to (attempt) to cover up the fact that some malevolent actor somehow switched off the transmitters which had initially been automatically activated.

And they'd have gotten away with it.... had it not been for a dogged and determined band of truth-seekers who - against the odds, and against the considerable power and might of The Establishment - triumphed in exposing the venal corruption and cover-up at the heart of this tragedy. It's the least that the victims deserved, after all.
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Cant switch off an EPIRB without it first having been switched on, which would require contacting the rescue services to report a false signal sent in error.

The Estonia EPIRB's had been inspected the week before and were found to be in good working order., i.e., all the lights and beeps were in place. In addition, they were hydrostatically released on contact with 1 - 4m of water as well as being available for operation by pressing the switch on button.


Is this clearer now?
 
Vixen said:
Citation please of where in the report it says 'manual activation only' and where in SOLAS does it reference Estonia as the basis of their new edict?
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The Government of the Republic of Estonia
Final report on the MV ESTONIA disaster Chapter 19

https://onse.fi/estonia/chapt19.html


With all due respect, no amount of 'crew training' would have saved 90% of the passengers, given the extremely rapid sinking. In addition, the JAIC never considered sabotage so it just assumed the missing EPIRBs were 'user error' and the non-receipt of the Mayday signals - except at the eleventh hour by walkie-talkie by two nearby vessels - were the error of the Coast Guards and receiving stations.
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Where is the error of the Coast Guard and other receiving stations? They got the saecond mayday.

If the command team on the Estonia had reacted correctly they would have notified the Coast Guard and other ships before the Estonia lost power and had to rely on had held radios.
 
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Vixen said:
Cant switch off an EPIRB without it first having been switched on, which would require contacting the rescue services to report a false signal sent in error.

The Estonia EPIRB's had been inspected the week before and were found to be in good working order., i.e., all the lights and beeps were in place. In addition, they were hydrostatically released on contact with 1 - 4m of water as well as being available for operation by pressing the switch on button.

Is this clearer now?
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As has been pointed out by so, so many posters, these two things are not the same.
 
Vixen said:
Cant switch off an EPIRB without it first having been switched on, which would require contacting the rescue services to report a false signal sent in error.

The Estonia EPIRB's had been inspected the week before and were found to be in good working order., i.e., all the lights and beeps were in place. In addition, they were hydrostatically released on contact with 1 - 4m of water as well as being available for operation by pressing the switch on button.


Is this clearer now?
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Released is not activated.

The mounts for the buoys are the same for both automatic and manual activated buoys.
 
Vixen said:
Here is a picture of said life vests (source: Ilta-Sanomat) and the header clearly says they were washed up on an Estonian beach.
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You've done this kind of thing a number of times - equating some with all in order to defend a (so-called) point.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
You're claiming Captain Thornroos is psychic. Why else would he be the authority on how many other radio stations received the same Mayday calls he heard?

Don't be stupid. He was one witness. He told them what he knew. He didn't know everything by magic.
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The Bridge contains all of the controls and the chart room. The bridge personnel are heavily reliant on navigation and radio contact.

When a message is received from another ship the correct format is to say, 'Mariella - Estonia' and thus Thornroos had a duty to respond similarly.

Only Mariella and Europa responded which indicates only they got the Mayday message at the time. It is all very well saying retrospectively the itemised lists show 14 stations received a Channel 16 contact when none responded. The JAIC assume this was incompetence because it never investigated the claim of signal blockage as reported by Rear Admiral Heimo Iivonen, head of Finnish Coast Guard.

The Finns are a seafaring nation, technologically highly innovative and there is no way they were especially incompetent that night (cf their rescue of USS Park Victory in 1947; they even gave the survivors a sauna). The Captain of Mariella had to use his NMT hand set to contact the coast guard. That tells you there was a problem with the signals.

The JAIC refused to consider this.
 
Vixen said:
Cant switch off an EPIRB without it first having been switched on, which would require contacting the rescue services to report a false signal sent in error.

The Estonia EPIRB's had been inspected the week before and were found to be in good working order., i.e., all the lights and beeps were in place. In addition, they were hydrostatically released on contact with 1 - 4m of water as well as being available for operation by pressing the switch on button.


Is this clearer now?
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You don't know what you're talking about.

Is that clear?
 
Vixen said:
The Bridge contains all of the controls and the chart room. The bridge personnel are heavily reliant on navigation and radio contact.

When a message is received from another ship the correct format is to say, 'Mariella - Estonia' and thus Thornroos had a duty to respond similarly.

Only Mariella and Europa responded which indicates only they got the Mayday message at the time. It is all very well saying retrospectively the itemised lists show 14 stations received a Channel 16 contact when none responded. The JAIC assume this was incompetence because it never investigated the claim of signal blockage as reported by Rear Admiral Heimo Iivonen, head of Finnish Coast Guard.

The Finns are a seafaring nation, technologically highly innovative and there is no way they were especially incompetent that night (cf their rescue of USS Park Victory in 1947; they even gave the survivors a sauna). The Captain of Mariella had to use his NMT hand set to contact the coast guard. That tells you there was a problem with the signals.

The JAIC refused to consider this.
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Oh for god's sake. Your ludicrous lionisation of all things Finnish has nothing whatsoever to do with the facts underpinning the Estonia disaster.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
The Government of the Republic of Estonia
Final report on the MV ESTONIA disaster Chapter 19

https://onse.fi/estonia/chapt19.html




Where is the error of the Coast Guard and other receiving stations? They got the saecond mayday.

If the command team on the Estonia had reacted correctly they would have notified the Coast Guard and other ships before the Estonia lost power and had to rely on had held radios.
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Not if the signals were blocked.


How do you know a Mayday had not been attempted previously?

Couldn't see the reference to Estonia in your link.
 
tusenfem said:
Does it need to be attached to said crewmember? :D
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Oh wow - you're right!!! Some malavolent actor on the ship that night must have chopped off the hand of a crewmember with a machete, and used the severed hand to manipulate the "transmitter on" switch.

It all makes sense now..... :D
 
Vixen said:
Do watch this youtube video which explains how hydrostatic release EPIRBs function.

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Do get it into your brain that hydrostatic release has nothing whatsoever to do with activation of the transmitter.

This is a remarkable level of stubborn refusal to understand simple facts. Remarkable.
 
Vixen said:
Not if the signals were blocked.


How do you know a Mayday had not been attempted previously?

Couldn't see the reference to Estonia in your link.
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That entire ******* report is about the Estonia disaster. What's wrong with you?
 
Vixen said:
When a message is received from another ship the correct format is to say, 'Mariella - Estonia' and thus Thornroos had a duty to respond similarly.



Only Mariella and Europa responded which indicates only they got the Mayday message at the time. It is all very well saying retrospectively the itemised lists show 14 stations received a Channel 16 contact when none responded.
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Everybody that hear a Mayday cannot respond to the ships that is in distress. If you hear distress traffic where somebody already have responded you listen in and when suitable contact MRCC or the responding vessel and report your position and how quick you can get to the position. On he YouTube clips you can hear other ships report to Silja Europa that they are available.

After some time MRCC will designate one ship as OSC, on scene commander (today called on scene coordinator), and they act as an extension to MRCC making decisions and communication locally. Usually multiple VHF channels are setup for different traffic. For example search vs rescue vs helicopter operations.
 
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