Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part III

[Jack by the hedge]

I should just have read that part of the report instead of asking. Interestingly, despite what one ship's captain knew about responses to the Mayday calls, there were multiple stations which heard a Mayday from the Estonia:

"The first distress call was received from the ESTONIA at about 0122 hrs and was answered by the MARIELLA, which was north-east of and closest to the ESTONIA. When the distress call was heard on the Silja Symphony, a tape recorder was turned on to record the radio traffic.

A second distress call from the ESTONIA was received at 0124 hrs by 14 radio stations. One of these was MRCC Turku, which assumed control of the SAR operation.
At 0129 hrs the ESTONIA's position became known, and after receiving the distress message vessels in the vicinity turned towards the scene of the accident. The MARIELLA was by that time about nine nautical miles away from the ESTONIA. The Silja Europa, which had direct radio contact with the ESTONIA during the distress traffic, assumed control of the distress radio traffic and at 0205 hrs MRCC Turku designated her master as the On-Scene Commander (OSC).
After receiving the distress call MRCC Turku alerted rescue units and those responsible for the management of the rescue services. The first units to be alerted were the coast guard patrol vessel TURSAS at 0126 hrs and stand-by maritime rescue helicopter OH-HVG in Turku at 0135 hrs. The helicopter took off at 0230 hrs. MRCC Turku formally designated the situation as a major accident at 0230 hrs and the appropriate alarms were initiated.
At 0142 hrs the MARIELLA informed Helsinki Radio about the accident. Instead of transmitting a Mayday Relay Helsinki Radio transmitted a Pan-Pan message at 0150 hrs.
Maritime Rescue Subcentre (MRSC) Mariehamn informed MRCC Stockholm of the accident at 0152 hrs, whereupon the alerting of Swedish maritime rescue helicopters was initiated. The first of these, stand-by helicopter Q 97, took off at 0250 hrs.
MRCC Helsinki notified MRCC Tallinn of the accident at 0255 hrs.
The MARIELLA was the first vessel to reach the scene of the accident, at 0212 hrs. At this time many persons, liferafts, lifeboats and lifejackets could be seen in the water. People were heard screaming in the sea. At 0230 hrs the SILJA EUROPA arrived and by 0320 hrs all five passenger ferries had reached the scene of the accident."

https://web.archive.org/web/20040626020314/http://www.onnettomuustutkinta.fi/estonia/chapt07_1.html

 

[Jack by the hedge]

A red parachute or rocket flare has a visual range of around 10 nautical miles in daylight and 40 at night.
They launch to a height of around 300m if fired vertically.

In strong winds they should be launched at 45 degrees and visual ranges can be reduced to 5 and 20 nm.

Solas requirements for offshore vessels are at minimum, 2 Orange buoyant Lifesmokes, 6 Red Hand flares and 4 Parachute Red Rockets.

Ta. I don't always thank people for their knowledgeable input to save cluttering the thread even more, but it's always appreciated.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I should just have read that part of the report instead of asking. Interestingly, despite what one ship's captain knew about responses to the Mayday calls, there were multiple stations which heard a Mayday from the Estonia:

"The first distress call was received from the ESTONIA at about 0122 hrs and was answered by the MARIELLA, which was north-east of and closest to the ESTONIA. When the distress call was heard on the Silja Symphony, a tape recorder was turned on to record the radio traffic.

On the tape recording.
A radio fit on a large commercial vessel will start recording if traffic is detected on the distress channel, this is an automatic function.
Even small boat equipment these days has an automatic recording function on the better sets.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Ta. I don't always thank people for their knowledgeable input to save cluttering the thread even more, but it's always appreciated.

Each life boat or life raft also carries a Solas flare pack of 6 Hand Flares 4 Rocket Parachute Flares 2 Buoyant Smoke Signals.

 

[Andy_Ross]

As well as flares a Solas life raft also carries at a minimum:

1 Non-folding knife with a buoyant handle.
1 bailer. For more than 13 persons, 2 bailers should be kept
2 sponges
2 buoyant paddles
3 tin openers
2 sea anchors
1 pair of scissors
1 first aid waterproof kit
1 whistle
1 waterproof torch for communicating morse code with 1 spare set of batteries and bulb
1 signalling mirror/heliograph
1 radar reflector
1 life-saving signals waterproof card
1 fishing tackle
Food ration totalling not less than 10000 kJ for each person
Water ration- 1.5 litres of fresh water for each person
One rustproof graduated drinking vessel
Anti seasickness medicine and one seasickness bag for each person.
Survival booklet
Instructions on immediate action

 

[erwinl]

You do not know your geography. East of the wreckage would have been towards Hanko, Helsinki or even Narva (on the border of Estonia/Russia) at a stretch. Given it was wrecked near the Finnish Archipelago, it would almost certainly have washed up on one of those island shores.

Dirhami is on coordinate 59° 12' 0" North, 23° 30' 0" East, Utö Latitude: 59° 46' 59.99" N
Longitude: 21° 21' 59.99" E.

OK, so Dirhami is slightly more to the east than Utö but pretty much on the same longitude.

Oh please, for the love of whatever, stop with always introducing nonsense in your posts.

 

[Here_to_learn]

The head of the Finnish Coastguard confirmed there was continous interference with Channel 16 coming from the Russian military base at Hogland and the Estonian government formally complained to Russia about it.



What makes you think your internet chat denial renders this void?

What you fail to understand is that there is no conflict between what the coastguard says and the facts on VHF radios that we share in this thread. The conflict is between your understanding of the two.

There may very well have been disturbances on CH16 from Hogland that interfered with coastguard VHF stations in the Helsinki area.

That same disturbance would not interfere with traffic between the ferries due to the distance between the Hogland transmitter and and position of the accident.

 

[Andy_Ross]

What you fail to understand is that there is no conflict between what the coastguard says and the facts on VHF radios that we share in this thread. The conflict is between your understanding of the two.

There may very well have been disturbances on CH16 from Hogland that interfered with coastguard VHF stations in the Helsinki area.

That same disturbance would not interfere with traffic between the ferries due to the distance between the Hogland transmitter and and position of the accident.

Plus, as we can read in the official transcripts, the messages were received and acted on. Any claimed interference by the Russians in a different area has no bearing on things.

 

[abaddon]

You do not know your geography. East of the wreckage would have been towards Hanko, Helsinki or even Narva (on the border of Estonia/Russia) at a stretch. Given it was wrecked near the Finnish Archipelago, it would almost certainly have washed up on one of those island shores.

Dirhami is on coordinate 59° 12' 0" North, 23° 30' 0" East, Utö Latitude: 59° 46' 59.99" N
Longitude: 21° 21' 59.99" E.

OK, so Dirhami is slightly more to the east than Utö but pretty much on the same longitude.

Hilarious. You think currents in the sea travel in straight lines.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You appear to be projecting your own insecurities here.

Well I suppose it's heartening to know you don't think you're confused about what's been written EPIRBs. On the downside it implies you've decided to disbelieve anything that inconveniences your conspiracy theory of the day.

 

[abaddon]

Well I suppose it's heartening to know you don't think you're confused about what's been written EPIRBs. On the downside it implies you've decided to disbelieve anything that inconveniences your conspiracy theory of the day.

Well it is odd. The EPIRBs were not found on any beach, nor were they buried in sand. They were found floating in the sea along with life vests and rafts and other assorted debris that were buoyant. Why Vixen claims otherwise is anyones guess.

Unless one concludes the fishing vessels cruise along the sands for some reason. That puts us in star wars territory. Or Dune.

 

[phiwum]

Well it is odd. The EPIRBs were not found on any beach, nor were they buried in sand. They were found floating in the sea along with life vests and rafts and other assorted debris that were buoyant. Why Vixen claims otherwise is anyones guess.

Unless one concludes the fishing vessels cruise along the sands for some reason. That puts us in star wars territory. Or Dune.

Where did you learn this? Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[abaddon]

Where did you learn this? Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

The EPIRBs were found floating in the sea with life jackets and messed up rafts flooded and other assorted detritus that was buoyant from the wreck. I thought that was common knowledge, but I am happy to hurl a link if you wish.

Take a pause there. Some folk will intentionally bork it. Watch out.

 

[Axxman300]

This topic is at almost 1000 posts and it is a microcosm of how CTists work.

1. Start with the premise that the "official report" is a lie.

2. Spread conjecture based on grasping at straws, grasp enough to build straw men.(Submarines, Spetsnaz, Explosives, etc)

3. Quote the "Official Report" as if it is fact when defending a point, even though the official report concluded the bow visor fell off causing the ship to sink.

4. Make unrealistic comparisons using maritime events which bear no resemblance to the M/S Estonia other than the ocean was involved at some point

5. Quote experts who are not really experts but support and or spread related CTs.

6. When challenged, hype your credentials:

7. Have no grasp of the basic facts of the actual even on any level.

8. We the heat gets to be too much, start over.

 

[abaddon]

Well it is a bit odd. 29 vessels rocked up but OP insists there were only two. Silja and Mariella. OP has no clue that Isabella plucked survivors from the sea. Or Symphony. Or anyone else.

OP claims that channel 16 was blocked by Russian interference. Yet we have recordings of channel 16. Somehow, those do not count. Engineers on the boat had no welding gear, a car deck had watertight doors and so on.

It is absurd.

 

[Vixen]

But the signal strength is just 5w. It is a radio signal on 406mhz. It can be blocked in the same way as any other radio signal.

As already explained VHF is short range, it was not blocked the Estonia distress transmission was picked up by a number of other ships in the area.

For the umpteenth time, it was picked up by just Europa and Mariella, who had to ring the Coast Guards on their NMT's.

We tried at once after he had received the information from ESTONIA about her position and so on, and after the contact was interrupted we both tried, we and EUROPA, to contact MRCC and Helsinki Radio, Mariehamn radio. At first over VHF Channel 16, the emergency channel. No reaction at all. Nobody was listening in and not even in Stockholm. So we changed over to 2182, which covers the whole Baltic Sea, and were calling and calling. No contact whatsoever. The only thing we heard was somebody else calling. He spoke to EUROPA thereafter. He heard that we were calling and we heard that he was calling, but there was no reaction from ashore.

A: That means in summary that ESTONIA was sending a Mayday which was immediately only received by MARIELLA and EUROPA. It was just you two confirming receipt?
T: Yes, that was, in any event, what we heard.
A: You then tried to contact the Rescue Services?
T: Yes.
A: Both in Finland and in Sweden.
T: Yes.
A: And you did not get any reply?
T: No.

Captain Mariella - police statement 6.10.1994


Isn't that clear enough?

 

[Andy_Ross]

For the umpteenth time, it was picked up by just Europa and Mariella, who had to ring the Coast Guards on their NMT's.

Captain Mariella - police statement 6.10.1994


Isn't that clear enough?

From the report

A second distress call from the ESTONIA was received at 0124 hrs by 14 radio stations. One of these was MRCC Turku, which assumed control of the SAR operation.
At 0129 hrs the ESTONIA's position became known, and after receiving the distress message vessels in the vicinity turned towards the scene of the accident

Have you even read it?

 

[Vixen]

Sophistry? where?

Do you know what the word actually means?

The procedure is for a designated watchman to activate the buoys and throw them in to the sea if the ship is sinking. Automatic activation is a backup in case there is no opportunity to turn them on manually.

We know that the buoys on the Estonia were manual only. It was because of the Estonia sinking that automatic activation was made mandatory

Rockwater (Dec 1994) confirms the Estonia EPIRB's were hydrostatically operated.

The Cospas-Sarsat system was invented circa 1980. Estonia was built as Viking Sally in 1984. It was a Meyer-Werft ship. Your claim that in 1994 it 'must have had the old-fashioned manual type' cannot be true if it was the hydrostatic release type.


Fact is, it was inspected the week before and no problems were noted. The inspection involves four green lights flashing and a beeping noise, without actually activating the signal. This means there was zero reason for it to not have (a) floated to the top of the sea, and (b) to start transmitting a signal once surfaced. The Rockwater divers found the capsules open and the EPIRB's not present.

The attached youtube explains the inspection process at four minutes in.

 

[Vixen]

In that transcript the captain says after they heard the Mayday "they were shooting up emergency rockets". I'm not clear whether he means the Estonia said that over the radio or whether he saw these rockets. Do you know? If his ship had seen Estonia's distress rockets and was "right next" to it as you put it, would he not have changed course immediately toward the ship in distress? How far away is "right next to it"?

They could see each other's lights. IIRC they were nine km away.

The self-inflating lift rafts had a supply of flares, so what the Captains of Europa and Mariella saw were almost certainly the survivors on the life rafts setting them off. Most had abandoned ship within the ten minute times slot of the violent list to starboard and then a momentary self-righting. So almost all of the survivors were in the life rafts as of the time of the Mayday calls circa 1:22, when the other Captains became aware.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Rockwater (Dec 1994) confirms the Estonia EPIRB's were hydrostatically operated.

The Cospas-Sarsat system was invented circa 1980. Estonia was built as Viking Sally in 1984. It was a Meyer-Werft ship. Your claim that in 1994 it 'must have had the old-fashioned manual type' cannot be true if it was the hydrostatic release type.


Fact is, it was inspected the week before and no problems were noted. The inspection involves four green lights flashing and a beeping noise, without actually activating the signal. This means there was zero reason for it to not have (a) floated to the top of the sea, and (b) to start transmitting a signal once surfaced. The Rockwater divers found the capsules open and the EPIRB's not present.

The attached youtube explains the inspection process at four minutes in.

Estonia did not have automatic beacons. they had to be manually activated.

How they release is not the same as how they are turned on and off.

It was because of the Estonia disaster that the rules were changed to make automatic activation mandatory for class approval on ferries and passenger ships.

Why does it matter so much to you?