Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part III

[LondonJohn]

Fount of all knowledge.

Pfft, that's a fragrant abuse of admin privilege.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I was at the recording of that episode! (And the one where they bunk off, and Moss ends up in prison). The floor manager for that show is a friend of mine.

The quote from that episode that springs to my. mind when I read this thread is

"Did you see that ludicrous display last night?"

 

[JayUtah]

I was at the recording of that episode! (And the one where they bunk off, and Moss ends up in prison). The floor manager for that show is a friend of mine.

My two favorite episodes.

 

[abaddon]

Thanks for that info, I wondered where the model number came from. I'm still having no luck finding any technical information, possibly because it's no longer used.

Have the maintenance manual.

https://manualzz.com/doc/7067387/kannad-406-epirbs-maintenance-procedure

From that one can glean that the 406F model has no water sensor, and tuning the transmit frequency is a complex task requiring a lab.

In other words, Vixen is talking a load.

 

[Vixen]

That's all well and good, but you were already given a link that stated they were manual and the requirement to use automated was because of the Estonia disaster. Your continued whining about what should have been has no bearing on what actually was.

Citation please that they were 'manual'.

 

[Vixen]

Fount of all knowledge.

Naughty.

 

[Vixen]

Current requirements are for buoys that are activated on immersion. This has been pointed out several times.
At the time the Estonia sank there was no requirement for an automatic function.

This has been posted a good number of times.
You seem to ignore it.
Activating the buoys is not 'pissing about with minutiae, it is part of the procedure for abandoning ship.
Assisting passengers is a delegated responsibility for some of the crew members. manning the boats and rafts is another. Following emergency alarm and signal procedures is another.

You are playing on semantics: "At the time the Estonia sank there was no requirement for an automatic function."

There is zero evidence the Estonia EPIRB's were 'manually activated' but every evidence they were released from their capsules when immersed in 1 - 4m of water. This is also known as 'automatic'.

 

[Vixen]

They do not 'shoot out' due to water pressure, they float out due to being buoyant.
On the older manual operated units they are supposed to be removed from the cradle and turned on.
On those units operated by immersion they can either be removed and turned on with a switch which is the preferred method, or, they will float free and self activate if the ship sinks and the crew didn't activate them for some reason.

Manual units are supposed to be switched on by a crew member before the ship sinks.
Even the self activating type are supposed to be manually operated, the immersion switch is there as a failsafe.
If the ship sinks with the buoys still in the cradles there is a chance they will fail to deploy.

The Rockwater divers state the EPIRB's were missing from their 'cages' and the JAIC states they were not 'switched on'. This is contradictory. If they were released on contact with flooding water then they were automatic.


Something is not adding up here.


No way were they automatically released and then found in Dirhami, West Estonia 'never activated'.

 

[GlennB]

The Rockwater divers state the EPIRB's were missing from their 'cages' and the JAIC states they were not 'switched on'. This is contradictory. If they were released on contact with flooding water then they were automatic.

Something is not adding up here.

No way were they automatically released and then found in Dirhami, West Estonia 'never activated'.

Floating out of their cages while not switched on explains it. And it has been explained many times now.

I can only conclude that you're being deliberately obtuse. It's the only explanation for your constantly ignoring clear explanations that are supported by hard evidence.

 

[Stamuel]

The Rockwater divers state the EPIRB's were missing from their 'cages' and the JAIC states they were not 'switched on'. This is contradictory. If they were released on contact with flooding water then they were automatic.


Something is not adding up here.


No way were they automatically released and then found in Dirhami, West Estonia 'never activated'.

This one is easy: They don't have to turn on to float.

 

[GlennB]

Citation please that they were 'manual'.

A link is given in the post directly above yours.

 

[LondonJohn]

My two favorite episodes.

They were recorded (except, of course, for the exterior scenes) at Pinewood, which has a small soundstage/studio suitable for TV shows with a live audience.

Before the "Moss goes to prison" episode (I think its formal title is "Bad Boys"), my friend - who's also an AD on various movie productions - took me to see the two soundstages where scenes for the Bond movie Skyfall were being filmed, one of which was the huge Broccoli 007 Stage. Javier Bardem was there, blocking and rehearsing for the scene where he's in that (ridiculous) cage at MI6.

But I digress..............

 

[Vixen]

Have the maintenance manual.

https://manualzz.com/doc/7067387/kannad-406-epirbs-maintenance-procedure

From that one can glean that the 406F model has no water sensor, and tuning the transmit frequency is a complex task requiring a lab.

In other words, Vixen is talking a load.

From the words of your own attachment, the Kannad 406 is an automatic hydrostatic release system. We know this, because Rockwater tells us they were released from their containers. This must have happened when they were submerged by one to four metres of water. Otherwise, how did they get out?

In addition, it clearly shows they are programmed (tuned).

The fourth diagram shows the hydrostatic release mechanism.

The big question now is, who removed them from the vessel unactivated - probably never in their designated containers, or removed manually, and dumped in a small fishing port in Estonia 200 km away?

So: radio interference, removal of EPIRB buoys, which were never switched on, anyway, and not automatically released, or they would have activated, rapid sinking with virtually zero hope of rescue for 90% of those on board.

 

[LondonJohn]

You are playing on semantics: "At the time the Estonia sank there was no requirement for an automatic function."

There is zero evidence the Estonia EPIRB's were 'manually activated' but every evidence they were released from their capsules when immersed in 1 - 4m of water. This is also known as 'automatic'.

*shakes head in mild disbelief*

These two things - 1) the buoys releasing themselves from their cages, and 2) the buoys' transmitters being switched on - are entirely separate and unrelated.

How many times have we been through all this already....?

 

[JayUtah]

In addition, it clearly shows they are programmed (tuned).

No, programming is not tuning. They are programmed to send out user-specific digital information on the pre-tuned frequency.

The fourth diagram shows the hydrostatic release mechanism.

Do you understand that "release" and "turn on" are two entirely different verbs?

 

[LondonJohn]

From the words of your own attachment, the Kannad 406 is an automatic hydrostatic release system. We know this, because Rockwater tells us they were released from their containers. This must have happened when they were submerged by one to four metres of water. Otherwise, how did they get out?

In addition, it clearly shows they are programmed (tuned).

The fourth diagram shows the hydrostatic release mechanism.

The big question now is, who removed them from the vessel unactivated - probably never in their designated containers, or removed manually, and dumped in a small fishing port in Estonia 200 km away?

So: radio interference, removal of EPIRB buoys, which were never switched on, anyway, and not automatically released, or they would have activated, rapid sinking with virtually zero hope of rescue for 90% of those on board.

Oh good grief.

Please stop inventing/embellishing conspiracies and/or wilful intent to deceive out of whole cloth, purely in your own fevered mind.

In reality, there's nothing remotely strange or inexplicable going on here. There are no "big questions" that can only be answered with the presence of malpractice and a cover-up.

 

[Vixen]

*shakes head in mild disbelief*

These two things - 1) the buoys releasing themselves from their cages, and 2) the buoys' transmitters being switched on - are entirely separate and unrelated.

How many times have we been through all this already....?

Don't be silly. How can they be 'manually activated' once they've been released ito the raging sea. Four metres depth of water is twelve feet down. Maybe as well as survival suits, the crew put on their scuba tanks...oh but wait, they were never switched on, so they must have just missed them...dang! They weren't no James Bonds.

Or what was the other scenario? The EPIRB buoys got caught in the ship's structure and went down with the vessel, only to pop up later after everyone had gone, and then made their way to Estonia, with a bunch of life jackets and life rafts.

 

[JayUtah]

Don't be silly.

He's not.

How can they be 'manually activated' once they've been released ito the raging sea.

That's not how they're meant to be operated. You turn them on when the order is given to abandon ship. Then the ship sinks and they float out of their cradles into the raging sea, having previously been turned on at the appropriate time.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

 

[abaddon]

From the words of your own attachment, the Kannad 406 is an automatic hydrostatic release system. We know this, because Rockwater tells us they were released from their containers. This must have happened when they were submerged by one to four metres of water. Otherwise, how did they get out?

In addition, it clearly shows they are programmed (tuned).

The fourth diagram shows the hydrostatic release mechanism.

The big question now is, who removed them from the vessel unactivated - probably never in their designated containers, or removed manually, and dumped in a small fishing port in Estonia 200 km away?

So: radio interference, removal of EPIRB buoys, which were never switched on, anyway, and not automatically released, or they would have activated, rapid sinking with virtually zero hope of rescue for 90% of those on board.

I see. Clearly, technical documentation is beyond your ability.

OK then.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Have the maintenance manual.

https://manualzz.com/doc/7067387/kannad-406-epirbs-maintenance-procedure

From that one can glean that the 406F model has no water sensor, and tuning the transmit frequency is a complex task requiring a lab.

In other words, Vixen is talking a load.

That is not the right manual, it has immersion activation.

that is a model from 2006