The behaviour of UK police officers.

[Nessie]

An odd one, but the moral of the story, is police officers need to ensure they have a power of arrest. A driver who had a £100 commemorative coin, offered it as payment for £60 of petrol. It is legal tender, but the petrol station declined. The police were called, arrested the driver, but have now had to pay £5000 compensation, since they had no power to arrest him.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...a-man-petrol-commemorative-coin-b1946155.html

 

[Andy_Ross]

An odd one, but the moral of the story, is police officers need to ensure they have a power of arrest. A driver who had a £100 commemorative coin, offered it as payment for £60 of petrol. It is legal tender, but the petrol station declined. The police were called, arrested the driver, but have now had to pay £5000 compensation, since they had no power to arrest him.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...a-man-petrol-commemorative-coin-b1946155.html

He was on Jeremy Vine today.

He's a nut. It seems to be an obsession of his to pay for everything with these commemorative coins. He seems to take great delight in causing a fuss over it.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

An odd one, but the moral of the story, is police officers need to ensure they have a power of arrest. A driver who had a £100 commemorative coin, offered it as payment for £60 of petrol. It is legal tender, but the petrol station declined. The police were called, arrested the driver, but have now had to pay £5000 compensation, since they had no power to arrest him.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...a-man-petrol-commemorative-coin-b1946155.html

Seems like the kind of petty crime that could be handled better with a summons (or whatever the UK equivalent is) rather than arrest, which would have the added bonus of avoiding causing harm in cases of misunderstanding.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Seems like the kind of petty crime that could be handled better with a summons (or whatever the UK equivalent is) rather than arrest, which would have the added bonus of avoiding causing harm in cases of misunderstanding.

If the commemorative coin is legal tender, then what crime has been committed?

Dave

 

[Nessie]

He was on Jeremy Vine today.

He's a nut. It seems to be an obsession of his to pay for everything with these commemorative coins. He seems to take great delight in causing a fuss over it.

It is an interesting way to make money. Rely on ignorance about legal tender, make a fuss, get arrested, get compensation. I suspect most cops do not know about what is legal tender and the law, but a simple online search finds

https://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines/

"We receive a lot of enquiries about our popular silver commemorative coins (including £5 crowns, £20, £50 and £100 coins) and their legal tender status. Each issue is authorised by Royal Proclamation in accordance with the requirements laid down by the Coinage Act 1971. This means that in common with coins in general circulation these coins have legal tender status.
Please note that whilst these coins are legal tender, they are not designed for general circulation, so banks and shops are unlikely to accept the coins."

In any case, a good cop would know it highly unlikely there is a power of arrest for trying to pay with a commemorative coin and if somewhere refuses to accept legal tender, it is a civil matter as to how payment is to be made.

 

[Nessie]

Seems like the kind of petty crime that could be handled better with a summons (or whatever the UK equivalent is) rather than arrest, which would have the added bonus of avoiding causing harm in cases of misunderstanding.

No criminal law was broken. If a shop declines what is legal tender, it is up to them to work out with the person how payment is to be made, which is a civil matter.

 

[shemp]

If the commemorative coin is legal tender, then what crime has been committed?

Dave

The only crime was the one the pigs who arrested him committed.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

No criminal law was broken. If a shop declines what is legal tender, it is up to them to work out with the person how payment is to be made, which is a civil matter.

My point is that even if you suspected a crime was occurring, perhaps arresting someone over the potential theft of 60 bucks worth of gas is not the right response.

In this case, cancelling a summons upon learning no crime occurred would carry a lot less collateral damage than having to admit a false arrest was made.

 

[Nessie]

My point is that even if you suspected a crime was occurring, perhaps arresting someone over the potential theft of 60 bucks worth of gas is not the right response.

In this case, cancelling a summons upon learning no crime occurred would carry a lot less collateral damage than having to admit a false arrest was made.

It is incumbent on the police, before they make any arrest to establish

1 - has a crime been committed?
2 - is there a power of arrest for that crime?

In this case, the police did neither and they had to accept a false arrest was made. Hence, £5k compensation has been paid out by D&C police.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I'm assuming this guy immediately converted this police payout into obscure, limited-run coins to continue to insist cashiers accept as payment.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I'm assuming this guy immediately converted this police payout into obscure, limited-run coins to continue to insist cashiers accept as payment.

Quite possibly, but he has a legal right to do so. For most goods it wouldn't be an issue because a cashier could simply refuse to accept the payment and there would be no sale, but once petrol is in the car it's not easy to return it. However, being an annoying, difficult and generally disruptive **** is not, in itself, a crime.

Dave

 

[ponderingturtle]

Quite possibly, but he has a legal right to do so. For most goods it wouldn't be an issue because a cashier could simply refuse to accept the payment and there would be no sale, but once petrol is in the car it's not easy to return it. However, being an annoying, difficult and generally disruptive **** is not, in itself, a crime.

Dave

I am just kind of surprised that they still let you pump gas before you pay, I have not seen that in a long time. Here you have to prepay inside or put it on a card first to pump gas.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I am just kind of surprised that they still let you pump gas before you pay, I have not seen that in a long time. Here you have to prepay inside or put it on a card first to pump gas.

I get the feeling a guy who pays for services with commemorative coins keeps an up-to-date shortlist of places where his obnoxious tactics are viable.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I get the feeling a guy who pays for services with commemorative coins keeps an up-to-date shortlist of places where his obnoxious tactics are viable.

That shortlist would probably include every petrol station in the UK. I have never seen one that required pre-payment before filling; there are automated card payment pumps that use card pre-payment, but there's always an option to pay at the booth and that always allows filling before paying.

Dave

 

[TurkeysGhost]

That shortlist would probably include every petrol station in the UK. I have never seen one that required pre-payment before filling; there are automated card payment pumps that use card pre-payment, but there's always an option to pay at the booth and that always allows filling before paying.

Dave

Such a trusting island, sounds nice.

 

[Nessie]

Drive offs from petrol stations is a regular call for the police, who have to give the driver the opportunity to return and pay. Being allowed to fill up before payment opens the door to mistakes (forgot wallet, I've done that), to insufficient funds and card rejected. It makes proving theft surprisingly hard.

 

[shemp]

Do stations still let people pump then pay? There isn't a single one around here that doesn't require payment before pumping. Of course, this usually just requires inserting a credit or debit card, but I'm sure many people still pay with cash. In an era of ubiquitous security cameras, who the hell thinks they can pump and run without their face and license plate being recorded?

 

[Dave Rogers]

I know of one petrol station in North Wales that not only allows fill then pay, they ask customers to tell them how much they need to pay. Their pumps don't seem to communicate with the till, and they'd rather trust their customers than keep having to walk across the forecourt and check.

Dave

 

[bluesjnr]

I am just kind of surprised that they still let you pump gas before you pay, I have not seen that in a long time. Here you have to prepay inside or put it on a card first to pump gas.

All, well most, UK petrol forecourts have ANPR cameras. Drive off without paying and you'll get a call from the local constabulary.

About three years ago I did exactly that (in error I might add) and was phoned by the police within days who suggested I go to the station and pay. There was no warning or threat of arrest but it was clear from the general tone that NOT paying wouldn't go down well.

Apparently, in some stations drivers can only fill their cars with fuel once the camera has captured and logged the vehicle's number plate. I've seen signs advising that there will be slight delay before delivery begins due to presence of ANPR.

 

[bluesjnr]

I get the feeling a guy who pays for services with commemorative coins keeps an up-to-date shortlist of places where his obnoxious tactics are viable.

He's on you tube. His twatish behaviour found it's way into my feed a while back and I watched two or three of his videos where he tries the same act. It got very old, very quick.

The ones I watched were always petrol stations, that way he had the goods before he attempted to exchange the coin (it always was a £100 coin he offered). I doubt he would have a channel on you tube if he tried to pay for a weeks groceries at the till in the same way.

I'm pretty sure he also buys these coins on Ebay for less than their face value!