• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Dumbing down schools for equity

My parents bought a set of Cuisenaire Rods when I was a kid. We did some exercises with them, but nothing ever came of it. I remember their tactile aesthetics were very pleasing. The feel of the resin and the weight of the pieces.
 
Sherkeu said:
I hate that the metric is 'closing the gap' and not actually improving overall achievement for all students. Just imagine all the ways you can 'close that gap' just by closing off measuring mastery in a subject or cutting honors classes that have disparities in representation...etc.... Bad metric.
Click to expand...

Winner winner, chicken dinner!!

We homeschool two boys. Yesterday for one class we studied the district's goals. It's 263 words.

None of these words appeared: "reading, writing, mathematics, science".

It is the equivalent of Hershey's company writing a description of their business objectives without a word about producing chocolate.

Instead, it is three things: Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. It's pretty clear what that means underneath the obtuse Orwellian jargon. So...

Our local public school enrollment has fallen by 69% while population rose 11% in the 15 years before covid. Wow!

Surprisingly it held steady after covid at our school. Because the parents paying attention had already removed their kids. Adjusted for population, enrollment is down over 70%. It's incredible given that they spent over $33k per student last year.

But we're tied with Mexico in our local school's academic scores. The parents who care about that have removed their kids for a vastly superior academic track. It isn't hard to beat Mexico.

The other parents are trades-oriented and do not see the schools teaching anything useful. A kid that stays with his dad doing heavy equipment work, welding, mechanics, construction, etc. is going to be making adult pay at 12. Mine do at 10 and 11 years old, $100/hour on our bulldozer.

We have done a lot more dumbing down than in mathematics. The kids better fit for trades have been rendered ignorant where they need it most. Forcing them to do math instead of welding, which pays $90k a year here and does not even require an elementary education.

An illiterate boy can be a journeyman welder by 12 and make a million dollars by 21 years old. Instead of making a millionaire out of the welder, we make him do a curriculum he is not cut out for. We lie and say he is Einstein but the systemic something or other is keeping him from doing physics so he must spend a decade failing at that instead of becoming rich.

This is not "equity". We have a perverted, snobbish view of education. There is only one kind of knowledge to them. It will be imposed on everyone in the name of removing "barriers" whether they like it or not. Even if they starve to death, the important thing is they were in an algebra class instead of making good money.
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
Winner winner, chicken....
Click to expand...

A strictly vocational education is not broadly extensible beyond its immediate application and therefore restricts future potential, apart from making it far less likely to allow a child to step very far from the tribal cave and benefit from the full range of human knowledge and history. Why, people like that are likely to confuse nuclear explosions with "big fireballs, like you've never seen before" and support policies leading to deadly fallout, with "my bad" not cutting it afterwards.
Ignorance is bad enough, but willful ignorance an act of abandonment, leaving one's post as a responsible member of society. But hey, with change jingling in your pocket, you can have a beer and enjoy the light show. Besides, the less you know, the more one feels smart, unable to recall the many times naive impression had to give way to an informed opposite, rarely if ever experiencing a major advance in understanding, gosh, anything not strewn around the shop floor.


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
Winner winner, chicken dinner!!

We homeschool two boys. Yesterday for one class we studied the district's goals. It's 263 words.

None of these words appeared: "reading, writing, mathematics, science".

It is the equivalent of Hershey's company writing a description of their business objectives without a word about producing chocolate.

Instead, it is three things: Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. It's pretty clear what that means underneath the obtuse Orwellian jargon. So...

Our local public school enrollment has fallen by 69% while population rose 11% in the 15 years before covid. Wow!

Surprisingly it held steady after covid at our school. Because the parents paying attention had already removed their kids. Adjusted for population, enrollment is down over 70%. It's incredible given that they spent over $33k per student last year.

But we're tied with Mexico in our local school's academic scores. The parents who care about that have removed their kids for a vastly superior academic track. It isn't hard to beat Mexico.

The other parents are trades-oriented and do not see the schools teaching anything useful. A kid that stays with his dad doing heavy equipment work, welding, mechanics, construction, etc. is going to be making adult pay at 12. Mine do at 10 and 11 years old, $100/hour on our bulldozer.

We have done a lot more dumbing down than in mathematics. The kids better fit for trades have been rendered ignorant where they need it most. Forcing them to do math instead of welding, which pays $90k a year here and does not even require an elementary education.

An illiterate boy can be a journeyman welder by 12 and make a million dollars by 21 years old. Instead of making a millionaire out of the welder, we make him do a curriculum he is not cut out for. We lie and say he is Einstein but the systemic something or other is keeping him from doing physics so he must spend a decade failing at that instead of becoming rich.

This is not "equity". We have a perverted, snobbish view of education. There is only one kind of knowledge to them. It will be imposed on everyone in the name of removing "barriers" whether they like it or not. Even if they starve to death, the important thing is they were in an algebra class instead of making good money.
Click to expand...

Wow. Arguing for child labor, that's something you don't see every day.

Thankfully we have laws to prevent exploitation like that.

And if you are actually making your underage children work using heavy machinery, you should be prosecuted according to the law.
 
Last edited:
You don’t know anything about trades if you think math is unimportant
 
You don't need an English lit degree to be a machinist but math is absolutely essential.

I am bad at math and it really messed with my ability to take certain jobs.
Argue against underwater basket weaving degrees from Flowerchild U as practical but math, sciences and chemistry are very useful in getting better jobs.

A lot of lazy kids end up dishwashers and wait staff for blowing off the hard stuff in school. I am one.

Yet I can field fabricate repairs to old machines that keep them in service without a lot of precise measurements. Great on a bulldozer but keep me away from spacecraft and airliners.

I learned to respect those that tried harder early in life. Now I have to teach my son by my example how to do better.

Karma.....
 
dirtywick said:
You don’t know anything about trades if you think math is unimportant
Click to expand...

You don't know much about anything if you think math is unimportant.
I am pretry sure a knowledge of math had something to do with Bill Gates becoming one of the world's richest men....


Anyway, ABP's whole Anti Establishment rants became boring a long time ago.
Just another guy who see himself as some sort of Neo fighting against the Matrix...
 
Boudicca90 said:
Wow. Arguing for child labor, that's something you don't see every day.

Thankfully we have laws to prevent exploitation like that.

And if you are actually making your underage children work using heavy machinery, you should be prosecuted according to the law.
Click to expand...


Yeah, 12 seems a little young for heavy machinery.
It's not unusual for some Technical high schools to train high school age kids in the use of heavy machinery as part of an apprentice program, but 12 is way too young.
But anyway, the poster see himself as some kind of heroic Anarchist fighting the MAN, so crap like this is only to be expected.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
... Why, people like that are likely to confuse nuclear explosions with "big fireballs, like you've never seen before" and support policies leading to deadly fallout, with "my bad" not cutting it afterwards. ...
Click to expand...


What's the use of knowledge about nuclear fission? Anybody can do that!
It takes a real stable genius to come up with ideas for the practical use of those big fireballs, like to put out hurricanes, for instance. I bet they would also come in handy in the fight against cancer-spreading windmills ...
 
Shop class is going the same way that everything not on the standardized tests is going. Extraneous programs that build valuable life skills are getting cut by lean budgets. Arts, Music, Shop Class, Home Ec, none of that stuff shows up on the tests and money is tight, so they're first to get the chop. Why is the school gonna buy a bandsaw when they can better spend the time and money pumping their students test scores up a few more points?

These kinds of experiences are valuable and enriching even if they don't lead to future technical careers, but increasingly our society is deciding that students don't deserve them.
 
It is impressive that they have managed to find so many black parents who are willing to stand up against CRT, but these parents don't seem to have no idea what CRT is all about:

I don't know about you, but telling my child or any child that they are in a permanent oppressed status in America because they are black is racist. And saying that white people are automatically above my child or any child is racist as well.
Click to expand...


Those children are not in an "oppressed status in America because they are black". They are in an oppressed status because that's what America is about. And there is nothing automatic about white people being above black people. That is a function of racism, and it isn't racist to point that out.
 
From Canada:


MAT192H1: Liberating Mathematics



Hours
36L


Currently, mathematics is at a crossroads between tradition and progress. Progress has been led in large part by women mathematicians, in particular Black women, Indigenous women, and women from visible minorities. Intertwined in their studies of mathematics is a daring critique of traditional mathematics, re-imagining of mathematics culture, and more. This course will compare and contrast new forms of accessible mathematics with standard sources that draw dominantly on the experiences and narratives of men. Restricted to first-year students. Not eligible for CR/NCR option.

Prerequisite
High school level algebra.

Distribution Requirements
Science


Breadth Requirements
The Physical and Mathematical Universes (5)
Click to expand...


https://artsci.calendar.utoronto.ca/course/mat192h1
 
I guess if somebody wanted to destroy education and ensure rebuild to be very hard, this is not bad way to begin...
 
I am not really in favor of CRT. I do have a fair idea what it is. In my mind its just another form of extremism. I do respect it and am mindful what I say around my work however since I am aware that CRT is a power to be feared in society. In my mind CRT is mostly composed of statements that don't make much sense that you have to not only agree to, you have to answer the right way so you won't get discriminated against by others. I am fairly aware that freedom of speech is dead if it has ever existed. It was killed by extremists on both the left and right wing. On the right wing you are discriminated against if you don't watch one news network or the like.
 
Last edited:
Bubba said:
In their words, parents tell school boards they believe teaching CRT dumbs their kids down
Click to expand...

Which is kind of weird given that CRT itself is graduate level material.

MinnesotaBrant said:
I am not really in favor of CRT. I do have a fair idea what it is. In my mind its just another form of extremism.
Click to expand...


Are you sure?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory

Critical race theory (CRT) is a framework of analysis and an academic movement of civil-rights scholars and activists who seek to examine the intersection of race and law in the United States and to challenge mainstream American liberal approaches to racial justice.[1][2][3][4] CRT examines social, cultural, and legal issues primarily as they relate to race and racism in the United States.[5][6] A tenet of CRT is that racism and disparate racial outcomes are the result of complex, changing, and often subtle social and institutional dynamics, rather than explicit and intentional prejudices of individuals.[7][8]
Click to expand...

Ironically one of the main academic complaints about CRT is that it:

Academic critics of CRT argue that CRT elevates storytelling over evidence and reason, rejects the concepts of truth and merit, and opposes liberalism.
Click to expand...


Whether you agree or disagree with CRT it's not being taught in schools nor is it even possible to teach it there. Even undergraduates in university typically would not be able to fully understand it.


What the right wing nutbars are objecting to isn't CRT it's simply that they don't want the actual history of race and racism in America to be taught.
 
lomiller said:
Which is kind of weird given that CRT itself is graduate level material.
Click to expand...

True and misleading at the same time. CRT is not taught in elementary or high school but its principles are clearly guiding decisions of school boards and administrators, many of whom actually have graduate degrees. CRT is clearly the impetus behind California's recent decision to get rid of all advanced math classes in elementary school and the first two years of high school.

The goal here is to reduce the racial gap in math, which sounds laudable, but of course there are two ways to narrow the gap. One is to improve the abilities of the lowest performers. This can be difficult. The other is to lower the abilities of the highest performers. This is comparatively easy and the route that California has chosen. Harrison Bergeron writ large.

Ironically one of the main academic complaints about CRT is that it:
Click to expand...

They are referring to classical liberals there, not left-leaning Americans.

Whether you agree or disagree with CRT it's not being taught in schools nor is it even possible to teach it there. Even undergraduates in university typically would not be able to fully understand it.
Click to expand...

I am sure as a field of study it's much more complicated than I understand, but in general it is not hard to understand Kendi's central premise, which is that racial disparities can be solely attributed to racism, structural or overt, and his prescription that to be anti-racist you must act to eliminate the disparities. The problem is that he has not established his premise, just assumed it.

What the right wing nutbars are objecting to isn't CRT it's simply that they don't want the actual history of race and racism in America to be taught.
Click to expand...

As a card-carrying member of the right wing nutbars, I can tell you that it is easy to tell the actual history of race and racism in America as a positive tale of two great evils (slavery and segregation) that were overcome, largely because they so obviously contradicted the ideals expressed by the founders about things like liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom