Why do South American Leftists Embrace Castro?

[Ziggurat]

This is another argument against the embargo from a strictly capitalist perspective: it has excluded US interests to the degree that other nations have an enormous head start in developing economic relationships with Cuba.

OK. My point isn't so much that I like the embargo. Rather it's that I think Cuba's main problems aren't attributable to it. In fact, if I'm correct that the embargo doesn't do much harm to the Cuban economy, then logically it doesn't exert much pressure either, and so doesn't serve much purpose. So I'm not actually trying to argue against lifting the embargo.

 

[Leif Roar]

Their largest export destination is actually the Netherlands, of all places, which isn't even the closest European country.

Rotterdam is the main European harbour and, in particular, the primary Atlantic harbour (in capacity it's the largest harbour in the world); so in a very real sense Netherlands is probably "closer" to Cuba by freight or cargo ship than any other European country.

 

[Leif Roar]

OK. My point isn't so much that I like the embargo. Rather it's that I think Cuba's main problems aren't attributable to it. In fact, if I'm correct that the embargo doesn't do much harm to the Cuban economy, then logically it doesn't exert much pressure either, and so doesn't serve much purpose. So I'm not actually trying to argue against lifting the embargo.

Considering that Cuban's ecomony has become more and more dependant on tourism in recent years, and that the USA is -- without comparison -- the most natural market for Cuban tourism, it seems strange to so easily dismiss the embargo's effects on the Cuban economy.

Of course, the embarge doesn't only prevent trade with the USA; it also prevents US investments in Cuba, and the Cuban economy needs, and Cuba has in recent years opened for, foreign investments.

 

[Ziggurat]

Considering that Cuban's ecomony has become more and more dependant on tourism in recent years, and that the USA is -- without comparison -- the most natural market for Cuban tourism, it seems strange to so easily dismiss the embargo's effects on the Cuban economy.

Well, I didn't exactly dismiss it. In fact, I conceded that tourism is exactly where you should look if you want to find a big effect, because tourists and tourist destinations aren't fungible. And I don't know how big an effect that might be.

Of course, the embarge doesn't only prevent trade with the USA; it also prevents US investments in Cuba, and the Cuban economy needs, and Cuba has in recent years opened for, foreign investments.

Investment capital is fungible, and will flow around obstacles of that source fairly efficiently (more efficiently, in fact, than commodities, because distance really doesn't matter). If Cuba has good investment opportunities, it will be able to find plenty of investors. Unlike a market such as China, Cuba's economy isn't big enough to be size-limited when confined to non-US investment capital.

 

[CBL4]

Originally posted by corplinx
The thing is, Chavez is pure democrat. Most of his country is poor and he leads by mob rule essentially by appealing to everyone who isn't rich.

Castro on the other hand is a dictator.

Chavez is a would be dictator. He led an unsuccessful coup in 1992. Here is a Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_coup_attempt_of_1992

It makes a brave statement to stand next to a dictator hand-in-hand, but I am not sure they realize its the statement they think is being made.

Birds of a feather. The only difference is Chavez has benefitted from extremely high oil prices which gives Venezuala a temporary prosperity. If oil prices stay high for a while, I imagine he will attempt to accumulate enough power to become a dictator for life.

CBL

 

[Chupacabras]

If Cuba has good investment opportunities, it will be able to find plenty of investors.

Almost.

If it wasn't for the US passing a law (named after whatshisname SC guy) that extends the embargo to all countries that conduct businesses with Cuba.

 

[TriangleMan]

Almost.

If it wasn't for the US passing a law (named after whatshisname SC guy) that extends the embargo to all countries that conduct businesses with Cuba.

I think you are referring to the Helms-Burton law. Caused a fuss in Canada and the EU when it was passed but I'm not sure if the US has ever tried to charge a non-US company with it.

From a tourist perspective the embargo has resulted in Cuba not being inundated with chain-restaurants and stores that you see everywhere else. I once toured Havana for a day and kind of found it refreshing that there weren't any Pizza Huts or McDonalds everywhere.

That said Cuba was definately in rough shape. Most of the infrastrucutre and many buildings need upgrading badly. Cubans were also anxious to get hold of foreign currency - probably so that they could buy products at the special Government stores that only took foreign currency. I've heard (but never discussed with a Cuban) that basics like soap are rationed. A tourist I spoke to also said that prostitution was rampant near tourist resorts because turning tricks for $5 would make you more money in a few days than a doctor would earn in a month.

 

[CapelDodger]

Rotterdam is the main European harbour and, in particular, the primary Atlantic harbour (in capacity it's the largest harbour in the world); so in a very real sense Netherlands is probably "closer" to Cuba by freight or cargo ship than any other European country.

Coudn't have put it better myself. I would add that the Netherlands is the main European market-place for cigars, and has been for centuries. Cardiff is closer to Cuba, but my tobacconist buys his Cuban cigars from a Dutch supplier.