Texas bans abortion.

[Warp12]

And Just what are those non Religious objections to a medical Procedure?

Oh I guess there are quite a few...the paranoia about "western medicine", basic fear of needles, scalpel and "being cut up", "radiation can kill"...none of these need a religious basis.

There is literally no limit to how far some will go to sterilize the act of abortion, is there?

Wild.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

An opinion is one thing. Legislation is quite another.

Agreed.

I was responding to a post where students were asked to ascertain their parent’s opinion of abortion. And the point I took from the anecdote was that men should not even be allowed to voice an opinion on the matter, since they can’t have an abortion. That’s what I was disagreeing with, not the legislation.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

There is literally no limit to how far some will go to sterilize the act of abortion, is there?

Wild.

Simply Trying to debate this logically, I understand that is not what you are doing.

 

[abaddon]

This is rich.

Is it? Your messed up rules caused a woman and child to both die. And you do not care. Just another "splitail". So that does not count, right? And the kid? Died. You don't care either. Holy religious reasons made both die. End of.

It is as if you are merely pretending to care, for religious reasons.

 

[Susheel]

There is literally no limit to how far some will go to sterilize the act of abortion, is there?

Wild.

Oh, please...don't for a moment grab on to my response as justification for your sexist, bigoted, patriarchal support of a regressive law that is essentially an attempt to "keep women in their place."

 

[JoeMorgue]

So you don't have to hate and dehumanize women to oppose abortions, so I guess that's just a nice bonus for all the people who oppose abortions AND hate and dehumanize women.

Good to know.

 

[Stacyhs]

Here's a quandary for our "soul enters body at conception" believers. Is this a monkey or a human being? Does it have a soul?

Lab-grown embryos mix human and monkey cells for the first time
Insights from these chimeras could boost efforts to grow replacement human organs in livestock

By slipping human stem cells into the embryos of other animals, we might someday grow new organs for people with faltering hearts or kidneys. In a step toward that goal, researchers have created the first embryos with a mixture of human and monkey cells. These chimeras could help scientists hone techniques for growing human tissue in species better suited for transplants, such as pigs.

"The paper is a landmark in the stem cell and interspecies chimera fields," says stem cell biologist Alejandro De Los Angeles of Yale University. The findings hint at mechanisms by which cells of one species can adjust to survive in the embryo of another, adds Daniel Garry, a stem cell biologist at the University of Minnesota (UM), Twin Cities.

https://www.science.org/content/article/lab-grown-embryos-mix-human-and-monkey-cells-first-time

 

[Warbler]

No you don't. I didn't say you did

Glad we agree on that.

Just because something seems to be good doesn't mean it is.

Agreed, but I think we are just going to have to disagree with whether or not the line is a good one. You obviously think it is not, I think it is.

Faith is not a virtue. It's a cop-out. It's a dodge to avoid the facts.

Opinion, and it is not one I share. I agree it is possible that it can be used a a cop out and may not always be a virtue, that doesn't me it is always not a virtue and a cop out. My faith is something I consider very profound special, it not a cop out.

Santa Claus isn't real. Do you think faith will ever make him real?

I never said Santa Claus is real.

I may be making an unfair assumption. If I am, I apologize. But chances are you believe, in some version of Christianity.

You are not mistaken. I am Christian, Protestant, United Methodist, to be precise.

What does it say about your faith when virtually everything in the first chapter of the Bible are scientifically false.

[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light1. The earth and the universe did not come into existence at the same time. The earth is estimated to be approximately 4 billion years old and the universe is estimated to be about 14 billion years old (3.9 and 14.5 for those asking for precision)
2.The earth was almost certainly never dark as our Sun predates earth's formation.
3. Same answer as 2.

I agree, there are strong arguments that the Bible is not 100% literal truth. Chances are Genesis is not 100% literal truth. But it is still possible the God still created existence. God could have started what we call the big bang. Adam and Eve may not be the first man and woman, but it doesn't mean God is not responsible for the creation of humankind, and doesn't mean the everything in the Bible is 100% false.

Now you can have believe in two to four thousand year old stories made up by people who thought diseases were caused by demons and not germs if you want. Me, I'm gonna roll my eyes.

You can believe what you wish.

I certainly am not going to follow instructions from the ignorant.

Whom are you calling ignorant?

What instructions did this person give you?

 

[Warbler]

Common sense doesn't have to be logical or sensible, it is simply the held view of the vast Majority of the people, at a given time. You are confusing it with reason.

I agree, common sense is not necessarily the same as reason. I guess I should reword the line and say "faith is believe even when reason and logic tell you not to"

Yes but I think those people were already born somewhere else.

yet you said this:

The word Citizen is in the Constitution and a citizen is granted Rights solely by Birth in the United States.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I guess I should reword the line and say "faith is believe even when reason and logic tell you not to"

That's weird because that's the exact definition I have for "stupidity."

But again I've grown accustomed to the wrong side of arguments trying to turn everything into a philosophical debate about the nature of wrongness.

 

[acbytesla]

There is literally no limit to how far some will go to sterilize the act of abortion, is there?

Wild.

And there is no limit to what some people will do to present abortion as murder or genocide or NAZISM.

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. It is the removal of a woman's cells from her body. It is not a separate entity as it cannot exist on its own. There is no evidence it is sentient at all either.

Now if you can present evidence, not conjecture that it is, we should really consider it.

Otherwise, to me, it is little different than any other surgical treatment.

Too sterile for you?

 

[abaddon]

No you don't. I didn't say you did

Glad we agree on that.

Course not. You merely it up. Just like your "god".

Just because something seems to be good doesn't mean it is.

Agreed, but I think we are just going to have to disagree with whether or not the line is a good one. You obviously think it is not, I think it is.

Yup. Just make it up as you go. That always works, right?

Faith is not a virtue. It's a cop-out. It's a dodge to avoid the facts.

Opinion, and it is not one I share.

You already claimed you do.

I agree it is possible that it can be used a a cop out and may not always be a virtue, that doesn't me it is always not a virtue and a cop out.

Broken sentence. Faith is never a virtue. There is NOTHING one cannot believe on faith.

My faith is something I consider very profound special, it not a cop out.

Nope. Faith is an excuse.

Santa Claus isn't real. Do you think faith will ever make him real?

I never said Santa Claus is real.

Why not? Millions have "faith" that Santa is real. Surely they cannot all be wrong.

I may be making an unfair assumption. If I am, I apologize. But chances are you believe, in some version of Christianity.

You are not mistaken. I am Christian, Protestant, United Methodist, to be precise.

So a heretic according to other "faiths".

 

[smartcooky]

This is the classic false dichotomy that pervades this thread. Either you support unfettered abortion rights or you are a religious nut.

That is a massive strawman, and a big, fat ******* lie!

There is not one person in this thread who supports "unfettered abortion rights"

 

[cosmicaug]

Who is trying to stifle debate?
I don’t care if you say the Embryo is a PHD Physicists when it at the same stage that you can't tell it from a Chickens Embryo.

It's actually kind of offensive that people here are refusing to use the proper title for embryos who could develop into physicists with doctorates merely because said PhD embryos are chronologically deficient.

 

[smartcooky]

There is literally no limit to how far some will go to sterilize the act of abortion, is there?

Wild.

This is rich.

I was going to answer this, but the excellent answers below say everyting I want to say.

Oh, please...don't for a moment grab on to my response as justification for your sexist, bigoted, patriarchal support of a regressive law that is essentially an attempt to "keep women in their place."

Is it? Your messed up rules caused a woman and child to both die. And you do not care. Just another "splitail". So that does not count, right? And the kid? Died. You don't care either. Holy religious reasons made both die. End of.

It is as if you are merely pretending to care, for religious reasons.

So you don't have to hate and dehumanize women to oppose abortions, so I guess that's just a nice bonus for all the people who oppose abortions AND hate and dehumanize women.

Good to know.

Last three quotes are quoted for truth!!

 

[catsmate]

Here's a quandary for our "soul enters body at conception" believers. Is this a monkey or a human being? Does it have a soul?


https://www.science.org/content/article/lab-grown-embryos-mix-human-and-monkey-cells-first-time

A step in the direction of Gould's "most potentially interesting and ethically unacceptable experiment".

 

[thaiboxerken]

That is a massive strawman, and a big, fat ******* lie!

There is not one person in this thread who supports "unfettered abortion rights"

Well..there may be a couple. I am one, I think a woman has a right to terminate her pregnancy at any point for any reason. I'm just weird that way in thinking a person should have control over their own medical decisions.

 

[Aridas]

Well..there may be a couple. I am one, I think a woman has a right to terminate her pregnancy at any point for any reason. I'm just weird that way in thinking a person should have control over their own medical decisions.

There have been a couple other than you that have expressed much the same. Personally, I'm generally ambivalent, much as I think that if the state declares that they have a legitimate interest in preventing the (very rare) cases of abortion after viability for reasons that aren't directly related to health, the state should be prepared to take over the care and responsibility for a fetus that's then been simply removed rather than aborted.

 

[Lurch]

There is literally no limit to how far some will go to sterilize the act of abortion, is there?

Wild.

The acceptance of the procedure doesn't have to be 'sterilized' when understood to be what it is.

It's your own hang-ups on the subject which cause you to imagine that objective thinkers must find some means to assuage 'guilt.'

 

[acbytesla]

Agreed, but I think we are just going to have to disagree with whether or not the line is a good one. You obviously think it is not, I think it is.

No I don't. It values faith over reality. Faith is merely sticking a flag in the ground and declaring I'm believing in this. A logical and skeptical mind follows the facts even if they contradict its preconceptions.

Faith is not a virtue. It's a cop-out. It's a dodge to avoid the facts.

Opinion, and it is not one I share. I agree it is possible that it can be used a a cop out and may not always be a virtue, that doesn't me it is always not a virtue and a cop out. My faith is something I consider very profound special, it not a cop out.

Why is it profound and special?

Every single person peddling religion when cornered goes to faith as a justification for believing in the unprovable and unfalsifiable. But "faith is not a reliable method for determining anything. One can just as easily believe in something false as something true based on their faith.

I never said Santa Claus is real.

No, you didn't. But the quote is from a movie justifying faith. In that case, a belief in Santa Claus which you agree is not real. Another example of how faith can be used to believe in the unreal.

You are not mistaken. I am Christian, Protestant, United Methodist, to be precise.

That's exactly the church I attended for much of my youth. Beats the hell out of the absolutely insane Baptist church I attended in my late teens.

I agree, there are strong arguments that the Bible is not 100% literal truth. Chances are Genesis is not 100% literal truth. But it is still possible the God still created existence. God could have started what we call the big bang. Adam and Eve may not be the first man and woman, but it doesn't mean God is not responsible for the creation of humankind, and doesn't mean the everything in the Bible is 100% false.

I don't believe the Bible is 100 percent false. I'm sure there are some things it gets right. There is philosophy taught in the New Testament which I believe to be wonderful. There are some great lessons in the Bible that I rely on to this day. But when it comes to facts and reality, there is little of anything that is true and a lot that is downright awful.

As for there being a God. I see absolutely no evidence that a God created the universe. There is however evidence that man created God. Actually, thousands of them.

Almost nothing In the book of Genesis, the Pentateuch or the entire Old Testament that is true or valuable. There are locations that certainly existed, but so what? Spiderman takes place in New York City. Just because NYC is real doesn't mean Spidey is real. Noah and the Ark is absurd, so is Jonah and the Whale. This is tip of the iceberg when it comes to factual absurdities.

Do you believe in Moses? There is no archeological evidence of Moses or the mass enslavement and exodus of Jewish people from Egypt let alone the parting of the Red Sea.

I was taught that the first five books of the Bible or Pentateuch was written by Moses. This is ridiculous based on that Moses had no reason to know any of that but from passed down stories told around the campfires at night.

You can believe in what you wish.

That's the point. My beliefs are not based on my wishes. They are based on reality and open to revision.

Whom are you calling ignorant?

The people who wrote the Bible and those passing it off as factual today.

What instructions did this person give you?

I was referring to my religious instructions my pastor use to give us as well as what the Bible says.

Especially when some pasty face pastor says that abortion is a sin or murder. What's absolutely bizarre about their claim is that is quite challenging to even justify their position biblically.