Texas bans abortion.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Like a kidney or cancer? That's ridiculous!

It is no more a part of her body than a tick or a parasite.

It's grown internally from part of her body and an be linked back to it.

 

[plague311]

I just can't understand why any man is staunchly against abortion. Why do you care? Is it really about the fetus to you, really? I just can't bring myself to care, especially so much that I would tell women what to do about it.

When I was in health class in school we had an assignment to go home and ask our parents about abortion, then tell the class what their opinions were. I live in North Dakota, so you can imagine what 98% of the answers were (and this was in the middish 90's).

I was close to the last, and when it got to me I stood up and gave the answer my father gave me.

Me: Hey Dad, I need your opinion on abortion for my health class.

Dad: Can you have one?

Me: No, only women can have one.

Dad: Then it's none of your ******* business, is it?

Me: Thanks dad.

So what did I tell my class? "It's none of my ******* business because, as a male, I can't have one".

Served that detention with pride. That's also what I told my sons. To my daughter, I told her that whatever decision she makes is the right decision. She should talk with us (if she'd like), a doctor, and make that decision as best she can.

 

[Paul2]

When I was in health class in school we had an assignment to go home and ask our parents about abortion, then tell the class what their opinions were. I live in North Dakota, so you can imagine what 98% of the answers were (and this was in the middish 90's).

I was close to the last, and when it got to me I stood up and gave the answer my father gave me.

Me: Hey Dad, I need your opinion on abortion for my health class.

Dad: Can you have one?

Me: No, only women can have one.

Dad: Then it's none of your ******* business, is it?

Me: Thanks dad.

So what did I tell my class? "It's none of my ******* business because, as a male, I can't have one". Served that detention with pride. That's also what I told my sons. To my daughter, I told her that whatever decision she makes is the right decision. She should talk with us (if she'd like), a doctor, and make that decision as best she can.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Thumbs down from me. Seems vapid on its face.

Men can’t have opinions on women’s issues? Women can’t have opinions on men’s issues?

Men and women are in this world together, and what either sex thinks and does affects the other.

“I don’t care what you think because you’re a man” is no better than “I don’t care what you think because you’re a woman”.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Thumbs down from me. Seems vapid on its face.

Men can’t have opinions on women’s issues? Women can’t have opinions on men’s issues?

Men and women are in this world together, and what either sex thinks and does affects the other.

“I don’t care what you think because you’re a man” is no better than “I don’t care what you think because you’re a woman”.

Yeah that's definitely the point you should have taken away from that.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Abortions have (temporarily at least) resumed in Texas at at least one clinic after a Federal Judge blocked the law.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/07/politics/texas-abortion-ban/index.html

 

[plague311]

Thumbs down from me. Seems vapid on its face.

I'll let him know.

 

[Warbler]

Common sense is faith in the Wisdom of the Common Man, it's not logical to believe in either Common sense or faith.

nonetheless, I have faith.

Common sense is why we had the Salem Witch TTrials.
Belief in Science and logic has nothing to do with Common sense.

I never though common sense had anything to do with the Salem Witch Trials.

The Rights under the Constitution are the Rights of the Native Born American, that was put in place by the founders of this Nation.
If you believe the Nation was God Inspired, as so many people do, then you have too believe the Constitution was also God Inspired including all rights it gives to Women, and the Freedom of their own Bodies.

The word abortion is not found in the Constitution. You know that not everyone agrees that the Constitution gives women the right to an abortion. The US Supreme did say that it did in Roe v. Wade, but many disagree with that ruling have being trying to get it reversed.

 

[Warbler]

Me: Hey Dad, I need your opinion on abortion for my health class.

Dad: Can you have one?

Me: No, only women can have one.

Dad: Then it's none of your ******* business, is it?

Me: Thanks dad.

So what did I tell my class? "It's none of my ******* business because, as a male, I can't have one".

Served that detention with pride. That's also what I told my sons. To my daughter, I told her that whatever decision she makes is the right decision. She should talk with us (if she'd like), a doctor, and make that decision as best she can.

It not be any of your or your Dad's business, but I certainly it the fetus's/zygote's/embryo's business.

Why didn't you just censor the bad language when you said that to your class? You could have given the intended message and yet avoided the Detention.

 

[smartcooky]

The word abortion is not found in the Constitution..

1. The word "horse" is not in the Constitution so you are not allowed to own one and ride one, right?

2. The word "cancer" is not in the Constitution so you are not allowed to have it treated if you get it, right?

3. The word "music" is not in the Constitution so you are not allowed to play it, write it or listen to it, right?

Of course, this is wrong, and there is a good reason why that is - its thanks to one of your Founding Fathers, John Adams

The presence or non-presence of a word in your Constitution is utterly irrelevant. The right to have an abortion might not specifically appear in the Constitution but is it covered by other rights granted therein. The Constitution cannot specify every possible right a person might be granted, which is why John Adams was so insistent on the inclusion in the Bill or Rights of the Ninth Amendment.

Ninth Amendment
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."​

In Roe v Wade, SCOTUS ruled that the right to an abortion was implicit (as in "capable of being understood from something else though unexpressed"). This is held in the meaning of the Ninth Amendment; which addresses both your claim, and my list above - it ensures that the Bill of Rights is not seen or interpreted as granting only the specific rights it addresses.

The court ruled that the right to an abortion was one of those non-enumerated rights covered by the Ninth Amendment. Although not touched on by SCOTUS, it could also be argued under the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment that the term "liberty" as used in that clause means "freedom from arbitrary and unreasonable restraint upon an individual." , so a blanket ban on abortion could be seen as an unreasonable restraint, therefore a violation of the Fifth Amendment

NOTE: I learned all this stuff in Current Affairs and Civics classes in the 6th and 7th form (year 12 &13 - 1972 & 73), in New Zealand, as it was happening in the US. Don't American kids have Civics classes at school - are they not taught about their own Constitution?
.
.

 

[plague311]

It not be any of your or your Dad's business, but I certainly it the fetus's/zygote's/embryo's business.

As soon as the fetus\zygote\embryo are able to have a sustained conversation about it with me I'll be more than happy to listen.

Why didn't you just censor the bad language when you said that to your class? You could have given the intended message and yet avoided the Detention.

Perhaps. Let me introduce myself, I'm plague311 and I don't censor my language. Swearing got the severity and seriousness how I and he felt, across. I have no issues, or regrets, in taking that, or any, punishment for something I feel strongly about.

They asked for his opinion, and they got it.

 

[plague311]

NOTE: I learned all this stuff in Current Affairs and Civics classes in the 6th and 7th form (year 12 &13 - 1972 & 73), in New Zealand, as it was happening in the US. Don't American kids have Civics classes at school - are they not taught about their own Constitution?

"Being taught" something and "learning" something aren't always the same, unfortunately.

If he wants to get technical, there's also nothing in the Constitution saying that a woman who gets pregnant has to carry that child to term. In fact, is there anything at all in the Constitution that says **** all about abortion, pregnancy, embryo, etc.? I don't think so.

 

[smartcooky]

It not be any of your or your Dad's business, but I certainly it the fetus's/zygote's/embryo's business.

Nope. The fetus/zygote/embryo is not a person, or a citizen. Therefore, it has no rights and no "business" of its own. Up until about 23 to 24 weeks, it doesn't even have a brain or a nervous system, so it doesn't "know" anything, let alone what may or may not be "its business".

 

[Warp12]

Man, if Roe does one day get overturned, imagine all of the internet Constitutional Law Experts who will have to reimagine their understanding of morality and law.

 

[smartcooky]

Man, if Roe does one day get overturned, imagine all of the internet Constitutional Law Experts who will have to reimagine their understanding of morality and law.

The court would have to rule that it was wrongly decided, and that the Ninth Amendment does not allow for un-enumerated rights... that would be a terrifying ruling for all Americans.

I think its time Congress enshrined Roe v Wade in Law so that it cannot be overturned, or that that any future SCOTUS overturning would have no practical effect.

 

[Aridas]

Don't American kids have Civics classes at school - are they not taught about their own Constitution?

To poke at something depressing written back in 2018-

Civic knowledge and public engagement are at an all-time low. A 2016 survey by the Annenberg Public Policy Center found that only 26 percent of Americans can name all three branches of government, which was a significant decline from previous years.1 Not surprisingly, public trust in government is at only 18 percent and voter participation has reached its lowest point since 1996. Without an understanding of the structure of government, our rights and responsibilities, and the different methods of public engagement, civic literacy and voter apathy will continue to plague American democracy. Educators and schools have a unique opportunity and responsibility to ensure that young people become engaged and knowledgeable citizens.

While the 2016 election brought a renewed interest in engagement among youth, only 23 percent of eighth-graders performed at or above the proficient level on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) civics exam, and achievement levels have virtually stagnated since 1998. In addition, the increased focus on math and reading in K–12 education—while critical to preparing all students for success—has pushed out civics and other important subjects.

To poke at a couple findings...

1. Only nine states and the District of Columbia require one year of U.S. government or civics, while 30 states require a half year and the other 11 states have no civics requirement. While federal education policy has focused on improving academic achievement in reading and math, this has come at the expense of a broader curriculum. Most states have dedicated insufficient class time to understanding the basic functions of government.
2. State civics curricula are heavy on knowledge but light on building skills and agency for civic engagement. An examination of standards for civics and U.S. government courses found that 32 states and the District of Columbia provide instruction on American democracy and other systems of government, the history of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, an explanation of mechanisms for public participation, and instruction on state and local voting policies. However, no state has experiential learning or local problem-solving components in its civics requirements.

 

[abaddon]

nonetheless, I have faith.

Faith in what?

I never though common sense had anything to do with the Salem Witch Trials.

But faith did.

The word abortion is not found in the Constitution.

Which constitution? There are a lot of them. Faith makes no appearance in your constitution either.

You know that not everyone agrees that the Constitution gives women the right to an abortion.

How would you know? You just claimed that your constitution makes no reference to abortion at all.

The US Supreme did say that it did in Roe v. Wade, but many disagree with that ruling have being trying to get it reversed.

Or you could simply legalise it. Like other civilised countries.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The Texas AG has formally requested the appeals court to re-instate the law.

(Seriously why the game? Just send it to the SCOTUS and get the decision over with one way or another. We all know that's the end result of all of this.)

 

[Warbler]

As soon as the fetus\zygote\embryo are able to have a sustained conversation about it with me I'll be more than happy to listen.

A Baby can't hold a conversation either, but you are not allowed to kill a baby.

Perhaps. Let me introduce myself, I'm plague311 and I don't censor my language. Swearing got the severity and seriousness how I and he felt, across. I have no issues, or regrets, in taking that, or any, punishment for something I feel strongly about.

They asked for his opinion, and they got it.

Somehow, I think you could have got the severity and seriousness of the point across without swearing. Lots of people have.

 

[Warbler]

"Being taught" something and "learning" something aren't always the same, unfortunately.

If he wants to get technical, there's also nothing in the Constitution saying that a woman who gets pregnant has to carry that child to term. In fact, is there anything at all in the Constitution that says **** all about abortion, pregnancy, embryo, etc.? I don't think so.

True, there is no rule in the Constitution that says a woman must carry a child to term. The key question is, is there anything in the Constitution that forbids making abortion or abortion in some cases, illegal. That is what the fight has been about.