• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Sarah Everard Case: Policeman arrested and charged

Bob001 said:
So people were getting arrested off the streets for breaching curfew? Not just fined? Was that happening anywhere else in the world? I shudder to think of what the response would have been in the U.S.
Click to expand...

No - we didn't have a curfew.
 
Bob001 said:
So if he had been making a legitimate arrest of a woman walking alone on a public street, what would the charge have been?
Click to expand...

Not sure why you want to bring in a detailed discussion of the UK lockdown restrictions as they applied at the time? We weren't allowed to leave home except for certain things such as shopping, medical care, exercise (limited period), you couldn't go into someone else's home or meet up with them and so on. We will of course never know for certain which of these he accused her of doing.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
It's the same in England.

Rules are different for moving traffic offences though.
Click to expand...

Yes, looking back at the link, it was specifically saying that for a traffic offence the officer had to be uniformed. So I misinterpreted the information, apologies.
 
Bob001 said:
So if he had been making a legitimate arrest of a woman walking alone on a public street, what would the charge have been?
Click to expand...

I suspect that a corrupt officer could pick on several, soliciting, behaviour likely to provoke a breech of the peace, suspicion of possession of controlled drugs etc. In this case breech of travel restrictions, (I cannot remember whether she actually was in breech or not).
 
Bob001 said:
No, that is pretty standard police procedure. Someone cuffed in front can still fight or grab a weapon. TV cop shows are not the best source of reliable information.

And sometimes even that doesn't work.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...l-car-leads-cops-on-100-mph-chase/ar-BB1fiA2W
Click to expand...

This is much more important in the US where police have guns which means that prisoners can potentially get possession of a firearm if not restrained. In the UK arrested persons will not necessarily be handcuffed because that danger does not exist. Having said that I am sure that a lone officer would normally handcuff behind the back. All the persons I have ever seen in handcuffs (as patients) have been handcuffed in front, or to a prison officer. Police officers in my experience are usually pro-active in offering to remove restraints to allow you to examine a prisoner, or in one case saying he is violent towards young women (ie me) so they would advise keeping him in restraints and an officer would need to be present during the examination.

In the UK (E&W) handcuffs have to be justified on grounds of a belief that the person will attempt to escape or become violent. Just being arrested of itself is not grounds to handcuff a person.
 
Darat said:
Not sure why you want to bring in a detailed discussion of the UK lockdown restrictions as they applied at the time? We weren't allowed to leave home except for certain things such as shopping, medical care, exercise (limited period), you couldn't go into someone else's home or meet up with them and so on. We will of course never know for certain which of these he accused her of doing.
Click to expand...

I just didn't understand that the UK ever had such tough restrictions. Obviously a corrupt cop could have grabbed her for anything he made up. But all the reports say she likely cooperated with him because she knew she violated the pandemic rules.
 
Nessie said:
It is victim blaming to suggest Everard should have not let herself be arrested, cuffed and taken away. A Police Commissioner even suggested all women need to become more "streetwise".

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...es-for-saying-women-should-be-more-streetwise
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, many men just are not 'getting it' as they have rarely been in fear of rape, abduction and serious assault/murder. They say - meaning well - just go and knock on the nearest door, flag down a bus, ask to see his ID - missing the elephant in the room that it is a male problem towards females (usually). Because of this idea that they have empathy and insight, they miss that something needs to be done about the men who do this. Instead of the CPS not taking people to court 'because we can't get the convictions' then it is about time they thought of a way they can. Instead of assuming men exchanging filthy jokes at work is something that is too widespread and common to anything about, start formulating some HR policies that tackle it so that if a female police officer (say) complains, there is a process that has to be followed.

As for the men on this thread who don't believe females feel apprehensive about being stopped by some strange guy whilst only walking home and it is a sad irrational dark fantasy to 'imagine' they do, maybe it is time they reevaluate their belief they know what females think. Or perhaps they'll just continue to condescendingly tell women not to be so silly and lighten up.
 
Last edited:
Planigale said:
I suspect that a corrupt officer could pick on several, soliciting, behaviour likely to provoke a breech of the peace, suspicion of possession of controlled drugs etc. In this case breech of travel restrictions, (I cannot remember whether she actually was in breech or not).
Click to expand...


Bear in mind that the government is planning to make being annoying a criminal offence.
 
A police boss who said women "need to be streetwise" about powers of arrest in the wake of the Sarah Everard case is being urged to resign.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-58762029
Speaking on BBC Radio York earlier, Conservative Mr Allott said women should be aware this was not an indictable offence - one considered serious enough to warrant a prison sentence or crown court hearing.

"So women, first of all, need to be streetwise about when they can be arrested and when they can't be arrested. She should never have been arrested and submitted to that," he said.

"Perhaps women need to consider in terms of the legal process, to just learn a bit about that legal process".
Click to expand...

Sounds like a "get out of jail free card" for the next woman who resists arrest when accosted by a lone police officer in the street? Probably not. This will not work any better than the guy who used Biden's advice to scare people away from his house by shooting his shotgun into the air.
 
Ranb said:
A police boss who said women "need to be streetwise" about powers of arrest in the wake of the Sarah Everard case is being urged to resign.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-58762029


Sounds like a "get out of jail free card" for the next woman who resists arrest when accosted by a lone police officer in the street? Probably not. This will not work any better than the guy who used Biden's advice to scare people away from his house by shooting his shotgun into the air.
Click to expand...

How tone deaf is this 'police boss'? Sarah Everard was in a well-lit busy road when abducted. So when confronted by a butch fellow in a stab vest and police belt waving a police ID she was supposed to remember, 'When in trouble run to a policeman'.
 
The government "will stop at nothing to make sure that we get more rapists behind bars", Boris Johnson has said.
The PM told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show prosecutions for rape and sexual violence were "going wrong".
He added women should have confidence in the police, with the nation's officers "overwhelmingly trustworthy".
Asked by Andrew Marr whether he would launch an independent public inquiry into the case, Mr Johnson said he wanted the police watchdog to complete its review first.
He said: "We do need to look systemically at not just the Wayne Couzens case but the whole handling of rape, domestic violence, sexual violence and female complaints about harassment, all together."

Over the past five years, cases reported to police - and initially recorded as rape - have risen sharply.
However, the proportion making it to court - known as prosecutions - in that time has more than halved, the BBC's Reality Check team found.
Figures for 2019-20 show 1,439 suspects in cases when a rape had been alleged were convicted of rape or lesser offences in England and Wales, the lowest level since records began.
This was down from 1,925 the previous year, despite a rise in reports of rape.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58779629
 
Captain_Swoop said:
The government "will stop at nothing to make sure that we get more rapists behind bars", Boris Johnson has said.
The PM told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show prosecutions for rape and sexual violence were "going wrong".
He added women should have confidence in the police, with the nation's officers "overwhelmingly trustworthy".
Asked by Andrew Marr whether he would launch an independent public inquiry into the case, Mr Johnson said he wanted the police watchdog to complete its review first.
He said: "We do need to look systemically at not just the Wayne Couzens case but the whole handling of rape, domestic violence, sexual violence and female complaints about harassment, all together."

Over the past five years, cases reported to police - and initially recorded as rape - have risen sharply.
However, the proportion making it to court - known as prosecutions - in that time has more than halved, the BBC's Reality Check team found.
Figures for 2019-20 show 1,439 suspects in cases when a rape had been alleged were convicted of rape or lesser offences in England and Wales, the lowest level since records began.
This was down from 1,925 the previous year, despite a rise in reports of rape.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58779629
Click to expand...

"It's all Labour's fault for being soft on crime"
"Can't blame this government it's the last lot (implied Labour)"

I have heard both over the last 48 hours..

I really have given up hope.
 
Vixen said:
Another reason to be against harsh punishment is that it just makes jurors more hesitant to convict someone for fear they may have got it wrong. At least when sentences are relatively light, as in northern Europe, when a person found guilty of a crime has to pay compensation to the victim, the guilty person is less likely to 'get away with it' and is hit in their pocket, even if the victim's relatives think the sentencing is too lenient.
Click to expand...


You do realise that conviction for a crime has absolutely nothing to with any putative sentence associated with that crime, don't you? That instead, conviction for a crime is solely and exclusively concerned with whether the trier(s) of the crime believe that there's sufficient evidence to prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?

(I can only hope that, with this level of understanding and consideration, you never get to sit on a jury)
 
Vixen said:
Unfortunately, many men just are not 'getting it' as they have rarely been in fear of rape, abduction and serious assault/murder. They say - meaning well - just go and knock on the nearest door, flag down a bus, ask to see his ID - missing the elephant in the room that it is a male problem towards females (usually). Because of this idea that they have empathy and insight, they miss that something needs to be done about the men who do this. Instead of the CPS not taking people to court 'because we can't get the convictions' then it is about time they thought of a way they can. Instead of assuming men exchanging filthy jokes at work is something that is too widespread and common to anything about, start formulating some HR policies that tackle it so that if a female police officer (say) complains, there is a process that has to be followed.

As for the men on this thread who don't believe females feel apprehensive about being stopped by some strange guy whilst only walking home and it is a sad irrational dark fantasy to 'imagine' they do, maybe it is time they reevaluate their belief they know what females think. Or perhaps they'll just continue to condescendingly tell women not to be so silly and lighten up.
Click to expand...


1) If only it were as easy in practice to prevent certain types of men from committing sex crimes against women. (Sadly, it's not easy)

2) If only it were as easy in practice to secure convictions - with guilt proven beyond all reasonable doubt - in cases where it's predominantly a "he said/she said" situation. (Sadly, it's not easy)

3) If only any of this had anything to do with the OP of this thread. (It doesn't)
 
Vixen said:
"As usual and thankfully your fantasies have no connection to reality because...[enter reasoning here]."
Click to expand...


Because:

1) She believed - correctly, as it happened - that she was being arrested by a bona fide police officer;

2) It's standard practice to place handcuffs on a person who's being arrested - it makes it considerably more difficult for the person to run away, pull out a knife, throw a punch, throw away packages of drugs, stick the officer with a dirty needle, etc. Even a woman.

3) She can have had no hint whatsoever - at the time she was handcuffed and placed in his car - that she was about to experience anything other than being driven to a local police station, booked, and fined (or bailed). She certainly couldn't/wouldn't have had any inkling at all of the horrific fate that in fact awaited her.

4) It's easy to make the mistake - as I think you've done here - of using hindsight to misapply logic/reason/intent to people's actions. It's a bit like people saying wrt the BTK killings: "Why did they let him tie them up?" - but it's even more of a mistake wrt the Everard case, because she thought she was in the custody of a well-intending police officer.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom