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The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II

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whoanellie said:
From the ERR website


Well I have to give them credit for at least wondering where these things are getting their power from. I've been told that there is a lot of nuclear fuel lying around. That would be compatible/consistent with these 'putative' beacons being nuclear powered.
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LOL

Failing that though, there are also these amazing things called "batteries" :D
 
Axxman300 said:
I know.

Their attitude seems to be more about proving conspiracies and less about getting answers for the families of the dead, whom they are exploiting.
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Well yes - Kurm's expedition is, from the outset, actively looking for ways to pin the blame for the disaster on something other than the failure of the bow visor's bottom lock (and the calamitous chain of events that this set off, culminating in the ship's loss).

In passing, I don't really see why the official investigators should be cooperating at a data-sharing level with a privately-funded fishing trip of an investigation. Especially when it's so obvious as to what that fishing trip is hoping to corral into its net.....
 
LondonJohn said:
Well yes - Kurm's expedition is, from the outset, actively looking for ways to pin the blame for the disaster on something other than the failure of the bow visor's bottom lock (and the calamitous chain of events that this set off, culminating in the ship's loss).

In passing, I don't really see why the official investigators should be cooperating at a data-sharing level with a privately-funded fishing trip of an investigation. Especially when it's so obvious as to what that fishing trip is hoping to corral into its net.....
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Here's my interpretation of the problem:

The Estonia sinks, it's a major tragedy where just about everything went wrong at the worst possible time. Sweden takes control of the search, and works with Finland to place the wreck off limits. Every step of the way the Swedes are jerks about about the whole process from conducting the investigation, to not recovering any of the bodies from the wreck while ignoring offers to do so at no cost to the governments involved. There may have been smuggled items in one of the vehicles on the car decks, they might have been stolen Russian McGuffins.

Whatever it was the Swedish actions surrounding the wreck survey, and restriction of information about the investigation kicked open a door allowing conspiracy theories to flood in.

Now in a time where Qanon and other CT engines run wild the Estonia story is finding a new audience of loonies.
 
Axxman300 said:
But with better planning they could have filmed 100%, and if they got lucky they could have filmed more, and got more side-scan data.

Like I said, amateur hour.



Better project management yields better results.



I must have missed his tell-all book complete with source materials.
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That was 70% as of Monday. Today is Friday.

For some reason RS Sentinel hasn't moved very far away. Maybe 3km south of the wreckage. Perhaps they are still looking for the atlantic lock and sundry lorries.
 
Axxman300 said:
Weird, it's almost as if you don't read the links I posted. Because if you had you would have read this:



The link again:

https://news.err.ee/1608346988/expe...-we-did-not-seen-signs-of-extraneous-activity

See, while I am not a scientist, I am a Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute gadfly due to my love of oceanography. What I posted above is how non-lunatics conduct a scientific survey of what is now an underwater archaeological site. I've seen those sensors since they get tested a short distance from where I'm sitting at the big tank at MBARI.

Looks like they're sampling the currents at that depth to accurately model the undersea stresses the Estonia's hull endures, and the clarity will come in later when they PLAN THE NEXT EXPEDITION TO DIVE. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that it's more productive to put divers and ROVs down into clearer water than murky water.

Your story indicates that neither team is communicating with one another, and that's a waste of everyone's money, and everyone involved needs to be slapped around in the name of science for being nimrods. Sharing data save everyone time and money.
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Your link doesn't work for me. I don't think underwater current sensors are the same as the lighted beacon objects.
 
Axxman300 said:
I know.

Their attitude seems to be more about proving conspiracies and less about getting answers for the families of the dead, whom they are exploiting.
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Gotta find out which sneaker wave was responsible.

How are they exploiting the dead? I would say it was the Swedish government of the day exploiting the public by using them as a collateral shield on public transport. And then calling it 'classified'. That has to be the height of cheek.
 
LondonJohn said:
Well yes - Kurm's expedition is, from the outset, actively looking for ways to pin the blame for the disaster on something other than the failure of the bow visor's bottom lock (and the calamitous chain of events that this set off, culminating in the ship's loss).

In passing, I don't really see why the official investigators should be cooperating at a data-sharing level with a privately-funded fishing trip of an investigation. Especially when it's so obvious as to what that fishing trip is hoping to corral into its net.....
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The officials have already allowed the Fokus survivors group to have the bow visor - which was locked up and classed as 'classified' - analysed by their own independent experts. You still are not comprehending that things have changed. The JAIC report is yesterday's papers.
 
Axxman300 said:
Here's my interpretation of the problem:

The Estonia sinks, it's a major tragedy where just about everything went wrong at the worst possible time. Sweden takes control of the search, and works with Finland to place the wreck off limits. Every step of the way the Swedes are jerks about about the whole process from conducting the investigation, to not recovering any of the bodies from the wreck while ignoring offers to do so at no cost to the governments involved. There may have been smuggled items in one of the vehicles on the car decks, they might have been stolen Russian McGuffins.

Whatever it was the Swedish actions surrounding the wreck survey, and restriction of information about the investigation kicked open a door allowing conspiracy theories to flood in.

Now in a time where Qanon and other CT engines run wild the Estonia story is finding a new audience of loonies.
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You are quite wrong there. There have always been question marks since day one of the JAIC's report. Kurm and Meister were actually insider appointed Heads of the investigation board. The Estonian members of the JAIC were actually maritime experts within the industry, apart from Krum is was Chief Prosecutor. They saw which way the wind blew from day one, when the Swedes decided everything was to be literally covered up, no doubt thanks to Bill Clinton and his CIA operatives making it classified, together with John Major and MI6.

Have you never stopped to ask yourself why Germany declined to sign off the treaty, yet suddenly the UK is a Baltic State?
 
Vixen said:
They are lighted. That is why they are called 'beacons'.
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Wait. What? No, beacons are only lit if their intended use is that people see them. Radio beacons are a thing. Acoustic beacons too it appears.

Surely that press item you posted was about acoustic beacons. What the hell would be the point of putting lights on a locator beacon in an environment with a visibility range of a few metres?
 
Vixen said:
Because I don't think it's anybody's business. The idea that I am a 'Jabba' figure as claimed by JayUtah reveals this is simply a mobbing exercise designed to raise a laugh by the particpants. Little things please little minds.


JayUtah kept asking and asking what my science background was and then, just as I guessed, his motivation wasnt curiosity or interest, the sole aim was to set me up as a punch bag, so that whatever I replied the mob could all join the ruck by getting their boot in and claiming I had 'asked for it'.
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The problem is that you piss and moan about not revealing information when asked about a claim, but have no problem prattling on about revealing information no one asked for. You were asked for information on how you were a scientist and refused, yet willingly divulged you were a psychologist with no prompting.
 
Vixen said:
There have always been question marks since day one of the JAIC's report.
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Okay, let's take for the sake of argument that this is true. Wouldn't the cure for that be more transparency, not less? Kurm's latest expedition is privately funded, with no publicly apparent goal. All that seems to be coming out of this investigation are sensationalist claims with little hard science.
 
Vixen said:
They are lighted. That is why they are called 'beacons'.
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That's a piece of the ship's own structure which is being illuminated by light from the ROV that's filming it.

(Your spidey-senses should have tingled when it was abundantly clear that the object in question was covered in crud, and had therefore been immersed for a considerable time....)


ETA: multi-ninja'd!
 
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