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The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II

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Vixen said:
That is correct.
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Which part was correct? The part where your scientific training didn't extend beyond a basic college degree in an unspecified field?

There is nothing mysterious about science.
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I didn't say there was. My argument is that there are things you learn by being a practicing scientist that aren't part of elementary training. One of them is how to communicate findings to a lay, possibly skeptical, and possibly contentious audience.

Stop trying to make it something esoteric.
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It doesn't have to be either esoteric or prosaic. It just has to be something you didn't know.
 
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Vixen said:
I was a psychologist for a short time as a member of the British Psychological Society. If you practise your field you you can call yourself by the term you are professionally recognised as. I am no longer a member of BPS and no longer call myself a psychologist. However, that doesn't mean I have forgotten all my scientific training.
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For being such a private person and not wanting to discuss yourself, this is an awful lot of information. Why can't you present this type of information on why you claim to be a scientist?
 
JayUtah said:
Jabba overstated his credentials in the same way we fear you're overstating yours. Like you, he maintained he was certified as an expert in a field in which he nevertheless could not demonstrate minimal competence when required. Finally he admitted the true nature of his "certification," which was clearly deficient.

You present us with a similar dilemma. You cannot demonstrate competence in a field in which you have insinuated expertise by predicting an argument on knowledge of how that field is practiced. While you assert adequate training, you are too coy with the details to allow us to draw an informed conclusion.

Further, when asked about your physics education you were similarly coy and finally revealed that the "five years" in which you had studied physics was at the elementary level, not the way its taught to people who intend to go on to become physicists.

People are telling you what red flags you've raised. It's up to you to address them.
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Oh I see. I am being mobbed. So the person in the class whom everybody hates because he smells is the go-to insult name to anyone who disagrees with you. I had a Welsh friend who had someone like that in his class at school. This boy was called, 'Shunkor' or something. So my friend would call people 'Shunkor', secretly smiling to himself that they didn't realise they were being insulted.

So you are calling me Jabba to insult me? Nice.

Do you think that is nice behaviour for an adult?
 
Vixen said:
Because American author Jack A Nelson in Flashes in the Night describes in detail of how the crew (or, rather, some of the crew) got to their cabins, changed into warm clothes and were able to escape out of their windows, which opened, unlike those of the passengers.
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Warm clothes are not survival/immersion suits, they are not usually in crew cabins unless the crewmember has one of their own (some do as they buy ones of better fit and quality or higher specification than the minimum SOLAS standard)

Survival equipment is stowed around the ship in lockers placed at convenient positions.

Crew on the Estonia were on Deck 7 that is just below the boat deck which is deck 8 the uppermost deck, only the bridge is higher. It has a 'promenade' all round the structure so the windows open onto a deck, that is why they are the only ones that open. All the other windows look directly over the side, they do not open for obvious reasons.
 
Vixen said:
Oh I see. I am being mobbed.
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No, you're not.

So you are calling me Jabba to insult me? Nice.
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No, I'm pointing out how equivalent behavior in two different situations leads to people drawing similar conclusions about it in the absence of contravening evidence. If you believe that your situation should be considered different than Jabba's, now is the time to explain how.

Do you think that is nice behaviour for an adult?
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I have no opinion. I do, however, have strong opinions about whether incessantly straw-manning people's statements and putting words in their mouths that they never said is appropriate behavior for an adult.
 
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Vixen said:
Jutta Rabe who claimed to have access to various sources claimed she was informed of this by a senior Finnish naval officer.

People talk. They have gagging clauses written into their contracts so they spill the beans via third parties.
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So there is no evidence other than the say so of someone who was told something by someone?

there is no evidence other than that?
 
Axxman300 said:
Hard to say, looks like these guys are running with the CT angle:

https://estonianworld.com/life/new-...k-on-the-official-ms-estonia-disaster-report/

https://news.err.ee/1608353807/ms-e...s-may-show-traces-of-exposure-to-extreme-heat


And as I predicted, they had to cut their investigation short due to weather:

https://news.err.ee/1608351927/poor...tonia-official-investigation-rival-dive-short

This is stark contrast to the combined government investigation team's work thus far:

https://news.err.ee/1608346988/expe...-we-did-not-seen-signs-of-extraneous-activity

Who the hell spends that kind of money without looking at a calendar first?

Just to throw this into the mix, this private investigation was funded by Postimees Grupp, a large media conglomerate, and overseen by Margus Kurm, who was an investigator on the original distaster report:

https://news.err.ee/1608331562/postimees-group-main-backer-of-rival-ms-estonia-dive-investigation

Kurm seems to be an Estonian Rudolph Giuliani.
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Axxman300, do check the date on the articles. The weather was bad last Thursday and a bit blustery on Friday but Saturday, Sunday and Monday were sunny autumn days. The crew reported they had filmed 70% as of then.

Looking at Maritime Traffic they still seem to be in position.

I think ERR is a rival news group to Postimees, hence the competitive tone emphasising the time lost instead of the research gained.


You do realise that Kurm likely knows a lot of the truth behind the JAIC report?
 
Disbelief said:
For being such a private person and not wanting to discuss yourself, this is an awful lot of information. Why can't you present this type of information on why you claim to be a scientist?
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Because I don't think it's anybody's business. The idea that I am a 'Jabba' figure as claimed by JayUtah reveals this is simply a mobbing exercise designed to raise a laugh by the particpants. Little things please little minds.


JayUtah kept asking and asking what my science background was and then, just as I guessed, his motivation wasnt curiosity or interest, the sole aim was to set me up as a punch bag, so that whatever I replied the mob could all join the ruck by getting their boot in and claiming I had 'asked for it'.
 
Vixen said:
Because I don't think it's anybody's business. The idea that I am a 'Jabba' figure as claimed by JayUtah reveals this is simply a mobbing exercise designed to raise a laugh by the particpants. Little things please little minds.


JayUtah kept asking and asking what my science background was and then, just as I guessed, his motivation wasnt curiosity or interest, the sole aim was to set me up as a punch bag, so that whatever I replied the mob could all join the ruck by getting their boot in and claiming I had 'asked for it'.
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Do you lie habitually, or do you really have to work to lie so much?
 
JayUtah said:
No, you're not.



No, I'm pointing out how equivalent behavior in two different situations leads to people drawing similar conclusions about it in the absence of contravening evidence. If you believe that your situation should be considered different than Jabba's, now is the time to explain how.



I have no opinion. I do, however, have strong opinions about whether incessantly straw-manning people's statements and putting words in their mouths that they never said is appropriate behavior for an adult.
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We see what you are doing.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
So there is no evidence other than the say so of someone who was told something by someone?

there is no evidence other than that?
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As it was never investigated then of course it is not included in the official report.


On the bright side, the Swedish authorities are now going to release the entire video, after removing sensitive images of human remains.

We have had the first part, as revealed on Sverige Radio.
 
Vixen said:
We see what you are doing.
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Who is this "we" kemosabe?

Ok then, try this.

"You're not an accountant"

"I AM an accountant"

How about that? You are an accountant though so let's reverse the roles. Let's say that Jay was espousing on some finer point of accounting and you stated "You're clearly not an accountant".

Does Jay then get to refute you by saying actually he is? Is your statement now a "clear slur"?
 
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