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Sarah Everard Case: Policeman arrested and charged

So it looks like Couzens is in line for a whole life order when sentenced 29 Sept.

During the 20-minute hearing Lord Justice Fulford discussed the possibility of a whole-life order as he adjourned sentencing until September 29.
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DM
 
The case struck a chord with many and this spokesperson bod wants a full public inquiry.

Harriet Wistrich, director of the Centre for Women's Justice, is among those calling for a full public inquiry into 'police failures and misconduct and the wider culture of misogyny' following Couzens' guilty plea.

Ms Everard's murder sparked protests by women fearing for their own safety earlier this year.

Ms Wistrich said: 'As protesters made clear, women do not feel safe and it is incumbent on the Government and all criminal justice agencies to now take action over the epidemic of male violence which is the other public health crisis of our day.'
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DM

One would have thought, that as Couzens now appears to have been reported for his sexual harassment on several occasions that someone in the Met might have taken notice, especially as Couzens worked in the elite CNC squad, which provided personal protection for MPs and VIP's (RPO's). These guys have the authority to shoot on sight should their client be under threat to life.
 
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/wayne-couzens-nickname-met-police-sarah-everard-b945119.html

"Sarah Everard’s killer was nicknamed ‘The Rapist’ and allegedly drove around naked in 2015 three years before he was hired by the Met, it has been reported.
Wayne Couzens’ ex-colleagues at the Civil Nuclear Constabulary (CNC), where he joined in March 2011, reportedly gave him the nickname because he made some female officers feel uncomfortable, The Sun reports.
It has also emerged that Kent Police received a complaint from a male motorist that a man had been spotted driving around Dover naked from the waist down during the time Couzens was a volunteer in 2015.
The incident is being investigated by the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) after Kent Police took no action.
The IOPC also revealed Couzens was accused of flashing on two other occasions with concerns that they were not properly investigated by the Met in the days before Ms Everard was murdered."

All that and the Met still gave him a job, and a gun.
 
Nessie said:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/wayne-couzens-nickname-met-police-sarah-everard-b945119.html

"Sarah Everard’s killer was nicknamed ‘The Rapist’ and allegedly drove around naked in 2015 three years before he was hired by the Met, it has been reported.
Wayne Couzens’ ex-colleagues at the Civil Nuclear Constabulary (CNC), where he joined in March 2011, reportedly gave him the nickname because he made some female officers feel uncomfortable, The Sun reports.
It has also emerged that Kent Police received a complaint from a male motorist that a man had been spotted driving around Dover naked from the waist down during the time Couzens was a volunteer in 2015.
The incident is being investigated by the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) after Kent Police took no action.
The IOPC also revealed Couzens was accused of flashing on two other occasions with concerns that they were not properly investigated by the Met in the days before Ms Everard was murdered."

All that and the Met still gave him a job, and a gun.
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I can just imagine how a female rookie might have felt on joining the team.

"Jane, meet Bazza, Spike, Lofty, Shorty, Titch, Ginger, Boris, Paddy, er, The Rapist, ahem, Billy, Pete and Dave."
 
Again, if "diminished responsibility", by which I presume some class of argument that he suffered a serious mental health condition not mentioned so far, comes up then the MHA comes into play and he'd be looking at a 38/41 detention, which is generally harder to be released from than an actual prison sentence, as the only person who can remove a 38/41 is the Home Secretary.

I've met folk on 38/41 detentions who were on secure units, in special hospitals for longer than they would have been in prison.

The idea of someone getting off on "diminished responsibility" is nonsense.

PS The "new identity" thing is usually only used for minors rather than adults and the "release" process is not absolute, rather on license and subject to recall, pacé Venables. Why, yes, I did work for quite a few years with one of the psychiatrists who'd worked on the Mary Bell case.
 
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Darat said:
That is illegal in the UK.
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Realistically, what is the likely maximum sentence in the UK for premeditated murder? On the other side of the pond we think a lot of you guys go too easy on the criminal element.
 
zooterkin said:
Life imprisonment. I’d say a whole life sentence is quite likely in this case, given that he was a policeman.

https://www.defence-barrister.co.uk/life-sentences
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If they don't put someone away forever in a murder case like this that also includes premeditation, rape and obstruction of justice, who is that penalty intended for?

Slight digression: In this case and others, UK police are said to flash their "warrant card," presumably their official ID. In the U.S., cops carry metal badges, usually with a serial number, in addition to ID. Do UK cops carry badges?
 
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Vixen said:
Tell that to his cell mates when he is banged up for life.

Or perhaps he'll get the customary 8 years for having 'diminished responsibility' and a new ID when released after five.
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1) You do realise that he's (albeit belatedly) confessed to, and has now been convicted of, her kidnap, rape, murder and destroying a corpse?

2) Further, do you realise that it's impossible in our jurisdiction to be convicted of murder if the court accepts a plea of diminished responsibility?


I can only assume that you especially don't know (2), seeing as you're incorrectly/ignorantly bringing up diminished responsibility - seemingly as part of a knee-jerk authoritarian reaction along the lines of "They get off scot-free these days! They should be hung* from the highest tree!".

The very minimum he's likely to be sentenced to is life with a minimum of 30 years' imprisonment. It's possible that the judge will impose a whole-of-life sentence (ie that he spends the entire remainder of his life in prison, with zero chance of parole). There's no chance whatsoever that his sentence will be anything even remotely approaching your ill-informed claims here.



* And having just written the above, I now spot that you really were calling for him to be hanged!


You don't really know very much at all about the criminal justice system in England & Wales, do you?
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Again, if "diminished responsibility", by which I presume some class of argument that he suffered a serious mental health condition not mentioned so far, comes up then the MHA comes into play and he'd be looking at a 38/41 detention, which is generally harder to be released from than an actual prison sentence, as the only person who can remove a 38/41 is the Home Secretary.

I've met folk on 38/41 detentions who were on secure units, in special hospitals for longer than they would have been in prison.

The idea of someone getting off on "diminished responsibility" is nonsense.

PS The "new identity" thing is usually only used for minors rather than adults and the "release" process is not absolute, rather on license and subject to recall, pacé Venables. Why, yes, I did work for quite a few years with one of the psychiatrists who'd worked on the Mary Bell case.
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Anything to do with "diminished responsibility" is now entirely moot. The court has determined that he did not have diminished responsibility at the time of the murder etc - which is reflected in the fact that he was convicted of murder (murder in E&W can never be by way of diminished responsibility). And he'll be sentenced accordingly, and sent to a regular prison.

Now, that's not to say he might develop such serious mental health issues while in prison that he's judged no longer to be of sound mind. If that were to happen, he'd be moved out of a prison and into a secure hospital. But his sentence would remain exactly the same. This, indeed, is what happened to Ian Brady and Peter Sutcliffe: in both instances, the courts found that they were sane (for want of the more complex correct term) and they were sentenced on that basis; but their mental health subsequently deteriorated to the point where they were moved from their respective prisons into secure hospitals.
 
zooterkin said:
Life imprisonment. I’d say a whole life sentence is quite likely in this case, given that he was a policeman.

https://www.defence-barrister.co.uk/life-sentences
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That states that a whole life tariff is for:

The starting point is a whole life order where the seriousness of the offence (or of the offence and other associated offences) is ‘exceptionally high’ and the defendant was aged 21 or over when the offence was committed. Cases that would normally fall into this category include: (a) the murder of two or more people where each murder involves a substantial degree of premeditation/planning, abduction of the victim, or sexual or sadistic conduct; (b) the murder of a child involving the abduction of the child or sexual or sadistic motivation; (c) murder committed to advance a political/religious/racial/ideological cause; (d) murder committed by a defendant with a previous conviction for murder.
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And I should add, which seems to have been left of, 'the murder of a policeman'.

However, this time it is the policeman who is the murderer so wouldn't automatically qualify under the terms set out above. However, Couzens probably will qualify for a 'whole life' tariff on the grounds of 'aggravated murder' ( fraudulent representation, abduction, rape, murder, disposal of a body).
 
LondonJohn said:
1) You do realise that he's (albeit belatedly) confessed to, and has now been convicted of, her kidnap, rape, murder and destroying a corpse?

2) Further, do you realise that it's impossible in our jurisdiction to be convicted of murder if the court accepts a plea of diminished responsibility?


I can only assume that you especially don't know (2), seeing as you're incorrectly/ignorantly bringing up diminished responsibility - seemingly as part of a knee-jerk authoritarian reaction along the lines of "They get off scot-free these days! They should be hung* from the highest tree!".

The very minimum he's likely to be sentenced to is life with a minimum of 30 years' imprisonment. It's possible that the judge will impose a whole-of-life sentence (ie that he spends the entire remainder of his life in prison, with zero chance of parole). There's no chance whatsoever that his sentence will be anything even remotely approaching your ill-informed claims here.



* And having just written the above, I now spot that you really were calling for him to be hanged!


You don't really know very much at all about the criminal justice system in England & Wales, do you?
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I was just mountebanking.
 
Whole life sentence for Couzens.

Lord Justice Fulford handed down the whole-life tariff at the Old Bailey after a two-day sentencing hearing, which heard horrific details of Everard’s ordeal in her final hours.

Murder carries a mandatory life sentence, the only issue for the judge was whether he set a minimum term that Couzens would serve of 30 years, or a term meaning he could never be released.

Couzens, 48, joins a notorious list of about 60 prisoners in England and Wales who are serving whole-life sentences.
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zooterkin said:
Whole life sentence for Couzens.
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Great to see the judge getting it right!

I feared he'd get the '30-year' tariff due to having no previous convictions (although he should have been done for indecent exposure several times) and 'only' one victim. Good the wig was able to exercise discretion in sentencing. I am willing to bet Couzens will be appealing against the 'whole life' tariff.

In a just world, Couzens should be snatched off the street and have his arms handcuffed behind his back with the key thrown away. Driven 80 miles in the pitch dark of night. Then he should be systematically tortured exactly in the same way as his victim, with the nasty most depraved sex criminal smirking as he takes his last breath.
 
Vixen said:
Great to see the judge getting it right!

I feared he'd get the '30-year' tariff due to having no previous convictions (although he should have been done for indecent exposure several times) and 'only' one victim. Good the wig was able to exercise discretion in sentencing. I am willing to bet Couzens will be appealing against the 'whole life' tariff.

In a just world, Couzens should be snatched off the street and have his arms handcuffed behind his back with the key thrown away. Driven 80 miles in the pitch dark of night. Then he should be systematically tortured exactly in the same way as his victim, with the nasty most depraved sex criminal smirking as he takes his last breath.
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He has been sentenced in accordance with the law.

That's why we - in line with all modern liberal democracies - make laws, then try hard to ensure that those laws are applied properly and justly.

Edited by xjx388: 
<SNIP>
Rule 12


ETA: Oh, and you'd actually "feared" that he'd get.... what was it?.... the customary 8 years for having "diminished responsibility" and a new ID when released after 5 :rolleyes:

ETA2: And the judge didn't "exercise discretion in sentencing". Judges are bound by sentencing guidelines. Those guidelines give sentencing ranges for any given offence, which take into account many factors including severity, cruelty, premeditation, aggravating (or mitigating) factors, other crimes committed in continuance, public interest, abuse of power/authority and so on. The judge handed this man a whole-of-life sentence because his crimes put him at the top of the sentencing range for murder. The judge followed the sentencing guidelines appropriately.
 
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I genuinely wish it to happen to him as well.

Everybody on here is always all hot to punch Nazis and Terfs, but say a violent rapist should hypothetically get raped, and the pearls are clutched until fingers turn blue. It's the same thing.

No one was even talking about prison rape this time. I don't like when people go that route, because such assaults shouldn't happen in a civilized country's prisons, regardless of what anyone in there may "deserve." But **** Couzens, he deserves worse, and I wish I believed in hell so I could believe he'll go there. Cowardly, perverted beast.
 
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