Texas bans abortion.

[Warp12]

This is true. At 2 months, the mother cannot physically feel the "baby", she doesn't look pregnant, etc. But during the third trimester, we can feel the baby move, kick, even hiccup inside us. We can even see the baby as it turns sometimes. It's become a 'person' to us emotionally.

And before anyone jumps on me for saying "baby", I'm doing it for the same reason almost everyone uses that term in everyday speech: it's easier than typing or saying "zygote, embryo, fetus". So if you're going to harp on that, just don't. We all know it for what it is.

Very telling. And who made you the authority on "everyone"?

I don't see her claiming authority over anyone. Why do you?

Did you read the posts, even? I didn't say she was claiming authority over anyone.

I asked what made her the "authority" on what "almost everyone" uses the term "baby" for.

Hilarious.

 

[Warp12]

This is true. At 2 months, the mother cannot physically feel the "baby", she doesn't look pregnant, etc. But during the third trimester, we can feel the baby move, kick, even hiccup inside us. We can even see the baby as it turns sometimes. It's become a 'person' to us emotionally.

Up until then, what is it to you?

If you don't stop, I'm going to report you for harassment.

I don't think there is a case for that. You are making statements, and I am challenging them.

 

[Warbler]

But he does, I believe. He's obviously very emotional about it. This kind of thing has happened in the US, too. Mothers were told their babies had died at birth or shortly after and then they were sold to adoptive parents.

and that is despicable. I have never had anything to do with it and never would. It is fine to be emotional about. But it is not fine to put words in my mouth and accuse me having something to do with terrible crimes without any evidence, without knowing anything about me except that I am religious.

 

[Warbler]

Can't save the baby? Let both baby and mother die. After all it is just a mere woman and those are chattel according to the magic book.

I am not against abortion in situations where the mother's life is at stake.

 

[abaddon]

what you originally said:



What I said:



slightly different wording. It is not plagiarism when don't in a simple forum post. I was talking about the conditions of when I thought adoption was appropriate. The conditions you brought up, of course it is going to resemble your post! Anyway, everyone can see your original post. I was not passing off your words as mine.

I have been a teacher. That kind of teen sophistry is an auto-fail.

No, I do not. Again do not put words in my mouth. You don't know me and you don't know what I think, unless and until I tell you what I think.

I know what you claim to think because you are here telling all and sundry exactly what you claim to think. If it is not what you really think then your prior posts are lies.

Which is it?

no, abandoning a living child to whatever fate is not okay with with me. This is the last time I am going to do this. You are being ridiculous and I refuse to play along. enough.

Dodge noted. You are perfectly happy to promote the welfare of the unborn, but the born are unimportant to you. You made that clear and it is noted. And also so very christian of you.

 

[Warbler]

Giveaway, it says so in plain text under my avatar.

No matter, here is his own churches groveling apology for their abuse.

https://urc.org.uk/latest-news/2908...-heartfelt-apology-to-survivors-of-abuse.html

Just wait. He will attempt to back out of that. Maryland? Not my state. Or some such nonsense.

Just where do you get the idea that that is the church I belong to? It isn't. And yes, Maryland is not my state. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

[Warbler]

I have been a teacher. That kind of teen sophistry is an auto-fail.

I know what you claim to think because you are here telling all and sundry exactly what you claim to think. If it is not what you really think then your prior posts are lies.

Which is it?

Dodge noted. You are perfectly happy to promote the welfare of the unborn, but the born are unimportant to you. You made that clear and it is noted. And also so very christian of you.

okay, enough is enough. I am putting you on ignore. I am done with you. You are clearly bigoted against religious people. You have assumed multiple false assumptions about me, merely for admitting to being religious. You are not being reasonable or logical or rational or fair. Reasonable and rational conversation with you seems impossible. farewell.

 

[abaddon]

okay, enough is enough. I am putting you on ignore. I am done with you. You are clearly bigoted against religious people. You have assumed multiple false assumptions about me, merely for admitting to being religious. You are not being reasonable or logical or rational or fair. Reasonable and rational conversation with you seems impossible. farewell.

No. You simply fail at justifying whatever faith it is you follow, because you are unable to do so.

If you had some justification, you would have already provided it. But you have not because you do not have justification. None.

Put me on ignore all you like. That just means that you folded publicly when challenged. Fine by me. Let everyone see.

 

[smartcooky]

I don't think there is a case for that. You are making statements, and I am challenging them.

You asked Stacy a very personal question... whether she has ever had an abortion. That is completely off the twig and totally inappropriate behaviour; its direct harassment of another member... YOU DON'T ASK SOMEONE YOU DON'T ******* KNOW IF THEY HAVE HAD AN ABORTION!!!!!

If you don't stop with the lying, textually abusive tirade you are on, I will report you as well, even if Stacy doesn't!!

 

[Paul2]

It might look like an early term abortion. Of course, some will decide to carry a baby to term, even under these circumstances. I mean, if you have taken precautions (and even if you haven't) and a pregnancy occurs, the next decision is whether to carry to term. Being personally accountable is to make that decision as early as possible.

So a woman should not be held accountable for the act of having the abortion itself, in those circumstances, assuming the abortion was timely, she found out she was pregnant early on, etc. Agreed?

ETA: the circumstances are a women who knows correctly that she will never want a child and whose birth control has failed.

 

[Warp12]

You asked Stacy a very personal question... whether she has ever had an abortion. That is completely off the twig and totally inappropriate behaviour; its direct harassment of another member... YOU DON'T ASK SOMEONE YOU DON'T ******* KNOW IF THEY HAVE HAD AN ABORTION!!!!!

And, I said that she didn't have to answer.

She asked another member if they were male or female, in order to better understand their position. She has also mentioned numerous times her pregnancy, when presenting her debate. Why can't you ask someone if they have had an abortion, in a discussion of abortion? Is it something to be looked down upon? Not sure of your point. No different than asking if they have given birth, imo.

The next logical question to understand her perspective fully would be, if she has had an abortion. I'm a male...I haven't had one. If she hasn't had one or more, then perhaps she is not fully qualified to speak on the subject. I know women who have had them, and their position is significantly different from hers.

 

[Warp12]

So a woman should not be held accountable for the act of having the abortion itself, in those circumstances, assuming the abortion was timely, she found out she was pregnant early on, etc. Agreed?

Agreed. Do not conflate "held accountable" with the concept of "personal accountability".

 

[Stacyhs]

and that is despicable. I have never had anything to do with it and never would. It is fine to be emotional about. But it is not fine to put words in my mouth and accuse me having something to do with terrible crimes without any evidence, without knowing anything about me except that I am religious.

I agree completely.

 

[smartcooky]

And, I said that she didn't have to answer.

Irrelevant. Stop your abusive shtick!

 

[Warbler]

Except in special cases, abortion occurs *before* there is a child.

Opinion.

It must be less traumatic to be rid of a fingertip sized embryo soon after discovery of pregnancy than going through the full gestation process over many months, and then giving up an actual human being of one's own flesh.

really? after admitting you don't want to raise said child and can't afford to and don't have a home to raise it in?

Also I would it possible there might be trauma associated with getting rid of a living fetus that could turn into one's own flesh.

Stop arguing ONLY for the potential person, and consider the actual, live person who is most impacted.

I will when people on other side stop arguing only for the pregnant mother and actually give some consideration to value of the life growing inside the mother.

I get so goddamned frustrated with the drive to attach qualities to an embryo that are not there,

in your opinion.

and the bloody pious busybodies who feel the need to butt into a woman's most intimate and personal life. Especially when those buttinskis are men.

Ah, so now my opinion is invalid because I have a penis.

Leave matters of pregnancy to the woman and her doctor. In other words, mind their own business.

it is also the business of the fetus.

 

[Stacyhs]

I don't think there is a case for that. You are making statements, and I am challenging them.

Keep this up and we'll find out, won't we?

And, I said that she didn't have to answer.

She asked another member if they were male or female, in order to better understand their position. She has also mentioned numerous times her pregnancy, when presenting her debate. Why can't you ask someone if they have had an abortion, in a discussion of abortion? Is it something to be looked down upon? Not sure of your point. No different than asking if they have given birth, imo.

The next logical question to understand her perspective fully would be, if she has had an abortion. I'm a male...I haven't had one. If she hasn't had one or more, then perhaps she is not fully qualified to speak on the subject. I know women who have had them, and their position is significantly different from hers.

Thank goodness you said I didn't have to answer! That makes asking such a personal question OK in your mind?

Comparing asking me if I've had an abortion to asking Warbler if he's male of female is another equivalency fallacy. And adding, "You don't have to answer" does nothing to change that.

You're trying to justify your behavior and it doesn't work. Like I said, keep it up and we'll find out.

 

[acbytesla]

Maybe I missing something, but I don't understand this logic of comparing a cancerous tumor to an embryo or a fetus.

I mean a cancerous tumor doesn't develop into this:

[IMGW=250]https://platform.nashvilleparent.com/media/Baby%20Girl.jpg?raw=1[/IMGW]

So what? The same is true of my semen. It could eventually become a pretty baby. But just like a fetus or a cancerous tumor are all human and NOT a baby.

Let's stop talking about what it could be and limit discussion to what it is.

 

[Warp12]

Let's stop talking about what it could be and limit discussion to what it is.

A developing infant.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Have you ever had an abortion? And if so, how many? You don't have to answer. I am just trying to better understand your position. Sort of like the male/female thing.

My late grandmother did, a number of times. In the 1920's and 1930's when it was DEFINITELY illegal in this country, and yours. She was a God-fearing upright stanchion of the local Methodist church here, some of the rightest of the right. It was something she grieved over for the rest of her life, and only revealed to us her grandchildren a few months before she died some years ago.

Her reason was simple: They were a dirt-poor family with four hungry mouths to feed already and it was the Depression (my father was the eldest of these children). Contraception then was rudimentary at best, expensive, and seriously frowned on by her church and the government of the day. So an accidental pregnancy was not only "inconvenient", it was a disaster. Adding another baby mouth to feed would have ended in bankruptcy, the break-up of her family, and the loss of all her children to foster care. It was hard for her, dreadfully hard, but she went through with it nonetheless. And hid her sorrow from everyone for decades.

She told us later, there is no such choice as "legal abortion or no abortion". Abortion cannot be stopped. So it is really the choice between "legal abortion and illegal abortion". Women who want them will seek and obtain abortions, whether they are legal or not. They always have. So this right-wing grandmother of ours who voted strict conservative all her life said abortions need to be legal, safe and under the best medical care, including advice and understanding before and after.

 

[Shalamar]

I generally am opposed to Abortion. Don't like it.

I also strongly oppose any and all means to outlaw it. It is a decision to be made solely between a woman and her doctor. That's it. Full stop.

Women don't suddenly lose rights upon becoming pregnant. There are better ways to reduce abortion numbers than outlawing it.

And I despise people who dehumanize women and think they have a say on a womans medical decisions.