Cont: Scorpion's Spiritualism, Part Deux

[Scorpion]

Yes, he's quoting Moses and telling off the Pharasees for not killing their disobedient children like Moses said to and excusing them instead. He's even calling them hypocrites for complaining about the disciples not performing certain washing rituals while allowing unruly children to live.

Question for you Scorpion, what did Jesus say about the laws of Moses?

I don't know, but he said he came to fulfil the law, not change it.

 

[Scorpion]

Actually, follow-up question for you Scorpion. Are you baptised and a believing Christian?

No, I am not a Christian.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I don't know, but he said he came to fulfil the law, not change it.

Exactly. So since he isn't changing the Law Jesus thinks it's perfectly acceptable to stone someone to death for working on the sabbath, or wearing clothes of two different fibres. Or indeed to kill unruly children.

No, I am not a Christian.

Oh then Jesus says that you will be thrown into a lake of unquenchable fire for all eternity to be tortured. This is also perfectly acceptable to him.

Truth is Jesus was just as much a bloodthirsty psychopath as his daddy Yahweh was in the Old Testament, it's just that Jesus also said some nice things so people who haven't read the bible tend to give him a pass because they usually don't get told all the vicious things he supposedly said and did.

In fact I think Mohammed has one advantage over Jesus. Mohammed was definitely a real person.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I would very much like to continue this discussion Scorpion.

 

[JayUtah]

I would very much like to continue this discussion Scorpion.

It's certainly entertaining, if not especially productive. However, Scorpion has mentioned a number of times that he wants to let this thread die, for the defensible reason that he believes he can make no further headway in it.

 

[abaddon]

It's certainly entertaining, if not especially productive. However, Scorpion has mentioned a number of times that he wants to let this thread die, for the defensible reason that he believes he can make no further headway in it.

That begs a question. If what PS claims is true, why would it be impossible to demonstrate the claim is true?

Surely that is....I am not sure what that is. Special pleading? Maybe?

 

[JayUtah]

That begs a question. If what PS claims is true, why would it be impossible to demonstrate the claim is true?

I assume you mean Scorpion, but the same situation applies to PartSkeptic. Both acknowledge that their claims cannot be proven under the scientific method. But both argue toward the same end (albeit with slightly different lines of reasoning) that the scientific method is inappropriate for claims of their nature. They want to argue that scientific inquiry is inherently closed-minded and therefore that some other system of inquiry is more suited to the task and should be applied.

Surely that is....I am not sure what that is. Special pleading? Maybe?

Sure, why not?

 

[Darat]

I assume you mean Scorpion, but the same situation applies to PartSkeptic. Both acknowledge that their claims cannot be proven under the scientific method. But both argue toward the same end (albeit with slightly different lines of reasoning) that the scientific method is inappropriate for claims of their nature. They want to argue that scientific inquiry is inherently closed-minded and therefore that some other system of inquiry is more suited to the task and should be applied.



Sure, why not?

And of course all these claims are at their heart contradictory because they claim to make the claims because of evidence, yet they then hold that you can’t test them - without seemingly realising that if they aren’t testable then they couldn’t make their initial claim….

 

[Thor 2]

I assume you mean Scorpion, but the same situation applies to PartSkeptic. Both acknowledge that their claims cannot be proven under the scientific method. But both argue toward the same end (albeit with slightly different lines of reasoning) that the scientific method is inappropriate for claims of their nature. They want to argue that scientific inquiry is inherently closed-minded and therefore that some other system of inquiry is more suited to the task and should be applied.

A typical reaction from those who would have us take seriously supernatural phenomena. Some other system of enquiry needed than the scientific method they claim, without telling us what that system is. They tend suggest a mystique about the scientific method, that disqualifies it from comment about their woo stuff.

In essence however the scientific method, although it can be used to explore many extremely complex phenomena, is simplicity itself. It is just observing, and learning from those observations. Children use it all the time.

 

[arthwollipot]

I was reading some old threads, which is something I do - there is so much gold buried in the archives - and I came across this fairly long thread from 2008. Some of the people posting in this thread might remember it.

Why are you all pretending?

At first it will look pretty familiar, but there is a twist at the end. As I said, the thread is pretty long, but if you want to skip straight to it, the twist occurs at Post #296.

If Scorpion is still reading this thread, I am really interested in what he thinks about it. Scorpion?

 

[Nay_Sayer]

I was reading some old threads, which is something I do - there is so much gold buried in the archives - and I came across this fairly long thread from 2008. Some of the people posting in this thread might remember it.

Why are you all pretending?

At first it will look pretty familiar, but there is a twist at the end. As I said, the thread is pretty long, but if you want to skip straight to it, the twist occurs at Post #296.

If Scorpion is still reading this thread, I am really interested in what he thinks about it. Scorpion?

Great post and yet I can almost assuredly predict he'll disregard it entirely without even missing a beat.

 

[JayUtah]

That's a great thread, a great story behind it, and a cautionary tale.

My impression is that Scorpion believes he has been cured of his schizophrenia. About 1 in 4 patients recover on their own, or at least experience some amelioration of symptoms. Most simply don't. He says he's weaned himself off the medication, but there appears to be no follow-up with professionals to confirm that he no longer needs it. Schizophrenia can also be managed with non-pharmacological treatments in many cases, but common to all treatment regimes is the patient's belief that he needs one. If a patient simply declares himself free of the disease or free of the need to treat it, that should be a cause for concern.

 

[arthwollipot]

I feel it's only really of concern if the person declining to be treated starts to become a danger to themself or to others. I don't see any evidence of that in this particular case, but once again I am not a mental health professional, only some guy who happens to know some things.

 

[JayUtah]

I feel it's only really of concern if the person declining to be treated starts to become a danger to themself or to others. I don't see any evidence of that in this particular case, but once again I am not a mental health professional, only some guy who happens to know some things.

Indeed, especially since all treatments have side effects, if one can get along without them and be otherwise healthy and happy then it is generally of no one else's concern. Even Scorpion's antics here affect others only insofar as they wish to subject themselves to it. But insofar as schizophrenia is notoriously invisible to the sufferer, it's not out of line to hope that qualified people have an eye on any such situation.

I speak from the American perspective in general about mental illness. It is estimated that as much as 40% of those in America suffering from profound mental illness go untreated. This is in part due to the ordinary stigma of mental illness, but due more to the general financial unprofitability of treating the non-wealthy mentally ill. Treatment is indicated, but is simply not available. More often it falls to the American criminal justice system to deal with the mentally ill. And too often that means simply incarceration, not the intervention that happened early in Scorpion's case.

 

[Scorpion]

... I would very much like you, dear Master, to discuss the chakra and the connection with the soul. I'm eager to hear.

Since you opened the door for a discussion about the chakras I feel free to tell you about them. There are seven main chakras and at least fourteen minor chakras. You can soon find a diagram of the seven main chakras on the internet. But you will have to look harder for a diagram of the minor chakras as they are not so well known.

In my youth I had feelings like fire flowing through me in various locations, and one day I saw a diagram of the main chakras in a book. I immediately recognized them as the places where I felt the fire flowing through me.

To cut a long story short, after attending spiritualist churches for years I was told the reason I felt fire flowing was because my etheric body was loose and as a consequence my chakras were miss aligned. I had regular spiritual healing which I could often feel as heat, and after a couple of years I was cured of the feelings of fire. I then learned about the minor chakras and found I could use them to channel psychic energy and heal myself. There are minor chakras in the palms of each hand and the soles of the feet.
If you stand on grass in your bare feet you can draw energy up through the feet chakras, and you can channel it to various parts of your body through the chakras in the palms of your hand.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Chakras aren't real. They absolutely do not confirm to anything we know about physiology.

Again, why would you believe something for which there is no evidence?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Chakras aren't real. They absolutely do not confirm to anything we know about physiology.

Again, why would you believe something for which there is no evidence?

What Scorpion believes without evidence is different from what heydarian believes without evidence.
Scorpion's lack of evidence trumps heydarian's lack of evidence.
Because reasons.

 

[Scorpion]

Chakras aren't real. They absolutely do not confirm to anything we know about physiology.

Again, why would you believe something for which there is no evidence?

Because I could feel them, and that was before I saw a diagram of them.

A psychiatrists once asked me, what first made you believe in the chakras.
I said " I could feel them whizzing in and out of my head." He smiled indulgently, and I knew he did not believe a word I had said. I dispensed with his services because we live in two different worlds. I got no help from psychiatrists, but in the same town a few streets away I went to a spiritualist church where I got real help.

 

[abaddon]

Because I could feel them, and that was before I saw a diagram of them.

A psychiatrists once asked me, what first made you believe in the chakras.
I said " I could feel them whizzing in and out of my head." He smiled indulgently, and I knew he did not believe a word I had said. I dispensed with his services because we live in two different worlds. I got no help from psychiatrists, but in the same town a few streets away I went to a spiritualist church where I got real help.

Ther are no such things as "chakras" and even if there were, they are in various parts of the human body, static in place, not "whizzing" anywhere. Certainly not in and out of your head.

I am pretty sure you could identify the seven primary chakras and their locations. But you have now claimed that they have NO LOCATIONS AT ALL AND CAN LEAVE THE BODY WHENEVER THEY WISH.

 

[Scorpion]

Ther are no such things as "chakras" and even if there were, they are in various parts of the human body, static in place, not "whizzing" anywhere. Certainly not in and out of your head.

I am pretty sure you could identify the seven primary chakras and their locations. But you have now claimed that they have NO LOCATIONS AT ALL AND CAN LEAVE THE BODY WHENEVER THEY WISH.

My etheric body was loose, and the chakras were miss aligned, not in their correct location. That is the reason I could feel them. The feelings of fire I felt was because there was a gap between the chakras and their correct locations.