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The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II

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Vixen said:
So yet another Russian boat has turned up to keep a beady eye on RS Sentinel, this time from Kaliningrad (the former Prussia), a strange part of north Europe that is one gigantic Russian military base, a leftover from WWII as punishment to the Germans.
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Why wouldn't they monitor the ship with a mini-sub instead?:p
 
Vixen said:
When I said the ship was seaworthy, I was stating a fact, insofar it was definitely certified as seaworthy by Bureau Veritas. And as confirmed by the JAIC.

This is the legal situation as of the time of the accident.
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OK, here is a link to the Bureau Veritas NR467 Rules for the Classification of
Steel Ships

Note that this is an inspection at the time a ship is constructed or has been laid up for refit.

They are not like an annual 'MOT' certificate.

Section from page 258 covers Ro-ro ferries.

What was not compliant on the Estonia at the time of it's last survey?
When was the survey?

https://erules.veristar.com/dy/data/bv/pdf/467-NR_PartA_2021-07.pdf

There is also NI388 Safety of RO-RO Passenger and Cruise Ships.
This is a 'guidelines' document to help obtain compliance.

https://erules.veristar.com/dy/data/bv/pdf/388-NI_2018-01.pdf
 
Vixen said:
I have seen images of them somewhere (I called them drainage pipes as the word 'scuppers' had momentarily escaped me). You yourself said that all the captain needed to do was turn the ship away from the waves-onslaught.
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Which he didn't do.

Can you point them out on a picture of the ship? I can't see anything substantial on the outside of the hull as you would find along the edge of a solid railing around a deck 'freeing ports' as they are known.
 
Vixen said:
I was not tasked with investigating the accident. Many people contacted the JAIC to let them know of their experiences with the vessel from the POV of poor maintenance. As many of these related specifically to the JAIC star theory of the bow visor, then it should have at least investigated the numerous reports of recent past failings. If the bow visor really was in such a poor condition that a huge gap at the port side was left open on almost every journey and that cars and lorries could not exit the boat for hours whilst they tried to fix it (suppose they had needed to get out in an emergency???) then don't you think the shipping line managers should have been hauled up before the courts to answer the charges of gross health and safety negligence by wilfully endangering people's lives, in failing to rectify the dangerous condition of the bow visor and car ramp as constantly reported?
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That would not be the job of JAIC though, they were reporting on the sequence of events and causes of the sinking. Any criminal proceedings would be up to the appropriate authorities.
 
Vixen said:
Fact: Witnesses heard the 'Mr Skylight' message on the tannoy. That means someone triggered the fire alarm. That person who made the tannoy likely switched on the Drencher fire sprays.

It may have been a false alarm but it was definitely triggered.
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It does not mean someone triggered a fire alarm.

You don't know what type of fire suppression is aboard the Estonia, you don't know if they can be 'switched on'

You made that up.
 
Vixen said:
Fact: Witnesses heard the 'Mr Skylight' message on the tannoy. That means someone triggered the fire alarm. That person who made the tannoy likely switched on the Drencher fire sprays.

It may have been a false alarm but it was definitely triggered.
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It is a fact that there was a Mr. Skylight message. No one disputes that.

Given that, read the following from the estoniaferrydisaster.net website that you are fond of:

Note: Several crew members have testified to having heard "Mr. Skylight to No. 1 and 2" over the loud speaker after the excessive heel at 01.02 hours and thus assumed that there was a fire and tried to reach their respective fire stations at the beginning (e.g. see statement of 2nd engineer Peeter Tüür - Enclosure 7.3.2.128).
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Now look up the definition of the word "assume". Any light bulbs?
 
Vixen said:
Fact: Witnesses heard the 'Mr Skylight' message on the tannoy. That means someone triggered the fire alarm. That person who made the tannoy likely switched on the Drencher fire sprays.

It may have been a false alarm but it was definitely triggered.
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No, it does not mean that, as has been explained to you multiple times in this thread.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
It does not mean someone triggered a fire alarm.

You don't know what type of fire suppression is aboard the Estonia, you don't know if they can be 'switched on'

You made that up.
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It had a drencher system:

Drenchers are a system of water heads that are used for the fire protection. In contrast to sprinklers which are found internally, drenchers are normally found on the exterior of a building to protect against a fire from a neighbouring building. They tend to be positioned on roofs and over windows and external openings.

Another difference between sprinklers and drenchers is that all nozzles in the drencher system are activated simultaneously, whereas individual nozzles in a sprinkler system open when activated.

A drencher system consists of the follows components:

Water source.
Pump unit.
Distribution piping.
Control fittings.
Alarm device.
Special nozzles or water head.
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https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Drenchers


This would certainly explain the CCTV cameras near the roof of the car ramp being sprayed with water.
 
Progress on the Kurm Expedition

Progress on the Kurm Expedition

24.9.2021

Today, with the support of the research vessel RS Sentinel, objects found with an underwater robot two days earlier in the vicinity of the wreck of Estonia were investigated with a multi-seamanship. Led by hydrographer Peeter Ude, several objects of interest were mapped from the mapped seabed. Today, some of them were reviewed with an underwater robot. "We have not yet found anything related to this wreck," said Ude, who said that a more detailed examination of the objects would be resumed in a few days. In the evening, photos of the wreck were taken with an underwater robot to create a 3D model of the wreck.



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6 divers are on board the survey vessel Sentinel. 4 will dive in Estonia today and 2 are safety divers. One of the divers will dive on E for the fourth time! He was already 20 years ago with Jutta Rabe. They use the same diving methods as Anton Modin and Bergman in Natoagenten.

https://twitter.com/AndersJallai/status/1441647711976099840?s=20

Type advanced scuba diving and not like when Rockwater was there with Semi 2. Highly inefficient diving method.

25.9.2021

The Finnish coastal protection aircraft OH-MVN wander around the research ship RS Sentineli.
 

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Vixen said:
Haha! Face-Save O'Clock.
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Look: it's really not my fault that your posts demonstrate an inability to understand ballistics properly. But since this is already heading down a peripheral cul-de-sac, I'll leave it at that.
 
Vixen said:
It had a drencher system:

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Drenchers


This would certainly explain the CCTV cameras near the roof of the car ramp being sprayed with water.
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Oh, this is cracking stuff!

In "response" to a question asking how you knew what type(s) of fire-suppression system the Estonia had, you clearly googled something like "sprinkler systems" or "drencher systems" then c&p'd/linked to an article about fire suppression systems in commercial buildings!!

I'm genuinely now wondering if, whenever I visit this execrable thread, I'm entering some sort of parallel universe.
 
Oh and for the record, it's beyond all doubt that there was no fire on the vehicle deck (or elsewhere) of the Estonia on the night she sank.

Because if there had been a fire - and if, as Vixen keeps on incorrectly asserting, the bridge knew about this fire and sounded a fire alarm - then 1) this would beyond question have been included in the information the Estonia's bridge gave to Silja Europa, and 2) the official investigation would easily have found evidence of this fire when it inspected the wreck.

There. Was. No. Fire.

(And. There. Was. No. Fire-specific. Alarm.)
 
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