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The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II

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whoanellie said:
As I understand it, two yellow cards and you're out but I'm an American.
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You're correct. If a player gets shown two yellow cards in the same match, the referee automatically shows the red card as soon as (s)he has shown the second yellow, and the player is sent off. Yet another thing Vixen has posted about without proper knowledge about it.


(Although there was an embarrassing incident in the 2006 FIFA World Cup when English referee Graham Poll showed a player two yellow cards in the same match and didn't send him off - Poll mistakenly thought he hadn't already yellow-carded that player. Suffice it to say that Poll didn't referee any further matches in that tournament, and his reputation never recovered.)
 
Axxman300 said:
Okay, so now it was a fire nobody reported nor saw that sank Estonia?

Not a submarine, mini-submarine, torpedo, plastic explosives, terrorists, WWII mine, Russian limpet mine placed by unknown Rusky mini-sub, or a Spetsnz strike team. Now it was a fire.

Got it.

[qimg]https://media.giphy.com/media/N5PsztQSjkYMw/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47hzrugwitm3439hnpr7vf6uw2mm2oair8n351bcfj&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/qimg]

Funny thing about fire is that it the first thing out of everyone's mouth when they get on the radio for help. Funny thing about fire is everyone smells it because of, you know, smoke. Funny thing about people who have survived a fire is that this fact is all they talk about for a long time.

"Hey, there was a fire on the ship", not one survivor said ever.
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If there was a fire on the car deck it would have been below the main passenger areas of the ship. Everyone above would have known about it!
 
LondonJohn said:
You're correct. If a player gets shown two yellow cards in the same match, the referee automatically shows the red card as soon as (s)he has shown the second yellow, and the player is sent off. Yet another thing Vixen has posted about without proper knowledge about it.


(Although there was an embarrassing incident in the 2006 FIFA World Cup when English referee Graham Poll showed a player two yellow cards in the same match and didn't send him off - Poll mistakenly thought he hadn't already yellow-carded that player. Suffice it to say that Poll didn't referee any further matches in that tournament, and his reputation never recovered.)
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soccer is weird. :D
 
junkshop said:
Gosh, BA (and other airlines) predominantly use the UK's largest and busiest airport! Who'da thunkit! So how does this relate to a baltic ferry sinking?
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It shows that the NATO crews on that exercise 400 miles away could just have taken a plane to Stockholm to assist in the rescue. Or something.
 
Reformed Offlian said:
Careful with that. She does read a lot of Anders Bjorkman.
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By now she has to have realized that Bjorkman must necessarily be part of the conspiracy.

Captain_Swoop said:
Weren't the planes delayed because the Estonia was late?
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Presumably the Estonia was scuttled to avoid having to pay fines to British Airways for messing up their timetables.
 
Vixen said:
In the case of the Estonia it was the code for specifically a fire drill. The crew regularly practised these fire drills.
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No, it was not. The code specifically for a fire drill was "Mr Skylight" plus the fire alarm bell.

Fire groups no. 1 and no. 2 were led by the second engineer and the third engineer respectively. They were alerted by the coded alarm signal “Mr Skylight” and by the general fire alarm given by the alarm bells. A number given after “Mr Skylight” indicated the fire station where the group should meet. The call “Mr Skylight” followed by the Estonian words for “damage control” indicated that the damage control group should bring equipment for damage control and without further instructions start their work. Fire group 1 was trained and equipped mainly for fighting fires in the accommodation, and fire group 2 was focused on fires on the car deck and in the engine room. Fire group 2 was also trained in the use of chemical protection equipment.
The engine control group was led by the first engineer, and the only other member was the motorman on duty. The group was alerted by the “Mr Skylight” alarms, and by lifeboat and fire alarms. The muster station for the engine control group was the engine control room, and the prime task was to relieve the engineer on duty and take over responsibility for the running of the engine plant.
The lifeboat groups were alerted by the call “Mr Skylight” and by the general alarms. The muster stations were for the port lifeboat group number 2 lifeboat and for the starboard lifeboat group number 1 lifeboat.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20040626020651/http://www.onnettomuustutkinta.fi/estonia/chapt04.html#4
 
Jack by the hedge said:
No, it was not. The code specifically for a fire drill was "Mr Skylight" plus the fire alarm bell.


https://web.archive.org/web/20040626020651/http://www.onnettomuustutkinta.fi/estonia/chapt04.html#4
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I feel it's also worth pointing out that ratings-level crew on these sorts of vessels are usually 1) transient (plenty of comings and goings between different ships) and 2) of various different nationalities (including many for whom English is decidedly a second or third language).

So this would make it even more strange and nonsensical for the Estonia - for reasons best known to its management - to distort the meaning of the "Mr Skylight"* alert to something that's different from its meaning on (what appears to be) all other passenger-carrying merchant ships.

Or..... could it just possibly be that Vixen is wrong, and that the "Mr Skylight" alert was a general alert - just as it was/is on every other similar ship? Hmmmmmm.... I wonder........


* I keep feeling the urge to type "Mr Brightside" :D
 
theprestige said:
Maybe don't do Vixen's homework for her?
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I hope you're not serious. This isn't really a competition. I presume we all care about the truth.

In any case, Roland's citation does Vixen no good. The Russian transmission (and hence blocking) is not attributed to sabotage but incompetence.
 
phiwum said:
I hope you're not serious. This isn't really a competition. I presume we all care about the truth.

In any case, Roland's citation does Vixen no good. The Russian transmission (and hence blocking) is not attributed to sabotage but incompetence.
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It also clarifies why the channel was considered by some still to be operational. It worked for some, but not others.
 
Oh-oh - the troops have arrived

Finlands Uisko arrives soon it seems.
1:28 PM · Sep 23, 2021·Twitter for Android
Magnus Gustavsson
@magnusgus
·
5h
Replying to
@magnusgus

@NilsNil99853814
and
@GMeridionalis
#Estoniagate, how will Finlands coastguard act this time?
Magnus Gustavsson
@magnusgus
·
2h
Ok. Now we turned off the AIS broadcasts...no updates from Uisko since over one hour.
That's transparency, Finland!


:bigtank::bigtank::bigtank:

Finns mer information om vad de gör just nu? Går det att följa deras position online nånstans?
Translated from Swedish by
Is there more information on what they are doing right now? Is it possible to follow their position online somewhere?



Magnus Gustavsson
@magnusgus
·
4h
Bara hämta hem appen Marinetraffic.
Magnus Gustavsson
@magnusgus
·
4h
Slå på tracking så ser du hur de scannat av området mha sonar troligtvis.
Magnus Gustavsson
@magnusgus
Replying to
@magnusgus

@staffanrattfalt
and 2 others
Uisko verkar ha haft en kort chat med RS Sentinel och är nu på väg norrut igen för full fart.
Kunde de inte löst det över radion...?
Translated from Swedish by
Uisko seems to have had a short chat with RS Sentinel and is now heading north again at full speed.
Could they not solve it over the radio ...?
2:54 PM · Sep 23, 2021·Twitter for Android


https://twitter.com/NilsNil99853814/status/1440286466546958342?s=20
 

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