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Texas bans abortion.

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TragicMonkey said:
Who's "we"? Does Terri Schiavo ring a bell? There are people --a sizeable percentage of the population-- who would keep someone alive on machines even if the entire brain was completely removed. Because of the sacredness of life, God swill, etc etc.
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I see what you did there. :D
 
Warp12 said:
Let's cut to the chase. Yes, there are cases of incest and rape. But that is not the largest demographic for abortion. If you decide to have sex, you have made a choice. Even if using birth control, you know that there is a chance that you may become pregnant.

I don't believe in virgin births, do you? Of course not. I do believe though, that personal accountability is important...and that seems to be a lost concept, with some people (not saying you).

Now, all of that being said, I don't support this TX law. Because, I understand the world isn't perfect. And quite simply, 6 weeks is too early for many women to even know they are pregnant.
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You never said what "personal accountability" means.
Does that mean that anyone who gets pregnant should be forced by law
To carry it to term?
Give birth to it?
To care for it for 18 years?
Or that a male should have to take care of woman and unwanted child for almost two decades?

Regardless of their feelings?
Or their mental capacity
Or financial capabilities?

That men and women who don't want children should abstain from sexual intercourse?

You do know that there is no such thing as foolproof contraception?
 
Warp12 said:
Let's cut to the chase. Yes, there are cases of incest and rape. But that is not the largest demographic for abortion. If you decide to have sex, you have made a choice. Even if using birth control, you know that there is a chance that you may become pregnant.
I don't believe in virgin births, do you? Of course not. I do believe though, that personal accountability is important...and that seems to be a lost concept with some people (not saying you).

Now, all of that being said, I don't support this TX law. Because, I understand the world isn't perfect. And quite simply, 6 weeks is too early for many women to even know they are pregnant.
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The only way to 100% avoid pregnancy is not to have sex. Unless you're the Virgin Mary, of course. :rolleyes: So what you're really saying is that, in order to have "personal accountability " the only really choice a 'responsible' woman could make is not to have any sex at all unless she is willing to give birth.
 
Stacyhs said:
The only way to 100% avoid pregnancy is not to have sex. Unless you're the Virgin Mary, of course. :rolleyes: So what you're really saying is that, in order to have "personal accountability " the only really choice a 'responsible' woman could make is not to have any sex at all unless she is willing to give birth.
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No, not at all. But the focus seems to be on zero accountability. As always.

Warp12 said:
Now, all of that being said, I don't support this TX law. Because, I understand the world isn't perfect. And quite simply, 6 weeks is too early for many women to even know they are pregnant.
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If I felt the way you describe, I wouldn't be against this TX law.
 
Warp12 said:
Let's cut to the chase. Yes, there are cases of incest and rape. But that is not the largest demographic for abortion. If you decide to have sex, you have made a choice. Even if using birth control, you know that there is a chance that you may become pregnant.
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Does having made that choice mean it is ok that the government now gets to take all your choices away? Why does the fact that someone made a choice have anything to do with it. I made a choice to have children. Does that mean I can be made to give one of my kidneys to one my children? Why does a zygote/embryo/fetus/unborn child get special protection under the law that living children don't?

Warp12 said:
I don't believe in virgin births, do you? Of course not. I do believe though, that personal accountability is important...and that seems to be a lost concept, with some people (not saying you).
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Why am I no longer personally accountable after the child is born? Why is it different for the unborn entity as opposed to already born? Your "accountability" seems rather narrowly parceled out. It sounds like there is one kind of choice you want to make sure someone is held "accountable" for, but not for all choices.

Warp12 said:
Now, all of that being said, I don't support this TX law. Because, I understand the world isn't perfect. And quite simply, 6 weeks is too early for many women to even know they are pregnant.
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If there is no threat to the public health, the public should have no part in the decision. Six, eight, ten, twelve, or 40 weeks, this is a decision for the woman and her medical professionals.
 
JimOfAllTrades said:
If there is no threat to the public health, the public should have no part in the decision. Six, eight, ten, twelve, or 40 weeks, this is a decision for the woman and her medical professionals.
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At 40 weeks, or even 36 weeks, who plays the trump card...the woman or the medical professionals, in your opinion?
 
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Warp12 said:
No, not at all. But the focus seems to be on zero accountability. As always.
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Again and again you talk about accountability and yet you decline to say what that means.

Please enlighten us with some specifics as opposed to flooding the thread with jibber jabber.
 
The person getting an abortion is being accountable for their actions.

Having the baby and giving it up for adoption, or having to turn to state assistance to afford raising it puts the burden on others.
 
mgidm86 said:
The person getting an abortion is being accountable for their actions
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Yeah, ask the fetus about that. :rolleyes:

"I made a mistake marrying my husband. So, I took accountability and murdered him".
 
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Warp12 said:
At 40 weeks, or even 36 weeks, who plays the trump card...the woman or the medical professionals, in your opinion?
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The woman can choose, but if the medical professionals don't agree, she's going to have a hard time getting it done. She may look for other professionals who may agree with her, but it's going to be tough to find other options in a just a couple of weeks. (Why does that sound familiar?)

Abortions done at 36 weeks and later are essentially never done except for extreme medical reasons, and it's likely that it's the medical professionals recommending it. The number of women who would carry for 36 weeks and then decide to terminate the pregnancy for no medical reason has to be incredibly small.
 
mgidm86 said:
The person getting an abortion is being accountable for their actions.

Having the baby and giving it up for adoption, or having to turn to state assistance to afford raising it puts the burden on others.
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One of the problems I really have with the Anti Abortionist is they seem to lose interest in the well being of the baby about one second after it is born.
 
I second the call for a clarification of what it means to be held "accountable." The idea of punishing someone for not sharing someone else's rules of propriety sounds pretty horrible to me. Similar to that other horrible idea of forcing a pregnant woman to view an ultrasound beforehand. Haul her out in the street for public ridicule? Publish her face in the newspaper? The good old scarlet A?
Sadistic.

ETA: There's too many goddamn people worried about what other people are doing "wrong." Get over yourselves, and look in a mirror once in awhile. Life is hard enough without ******** projecting all their nonsense onto other people.
 
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Warp12 said:
Yeah, ask the fetus about that. :rolleyes:

"I made a mistake marrying my husband. So, I took accountability and murdered him".
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What part of a "Fetus is not a human being " don't you get?

And please don't give me that "It has a soul" crap.That is totally unprovable a matter of sheer belief.
And that is my main objection to banning abortion:It is an attempt to enforce religious doctrine via law. Theocracy here we come.
 
dudalb said:
One of the problems I really have with the Anti Abortionist is they seem to lose interest in the well being of the baby about one second after it is born.
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"If you cared more about the baby after it was born, maybe I wouldn't be so enthusiastic about killing them beforehand".

Seems legit. :thumbsup:
 
Warp12 said:
Yeah, ask the fetus about that. :rolleyes:

"I made a mistake marrying my husband. So, I took accountability and murdered him".
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Ok, ask the fetus. I'll wait while you try to get an answer. :rolleyes:

And the husband counts as part of the public. And as such the public has things to say about bumping them off just because you don't like them. :rolleyes:

Do you really not see that your frequent use of (juvenile, at best) sarcasm makes your arguments not only less clear but also seem silly? Try just making your points clearly and straight up.
 
dudalb said:
What part of a "Fetus is not a human being " don't you get?

And please don't give me that "It has a soul" crap.That is totally unprovable a matter of sheer belief.
And that is my main objection to banning abortion:It is an attempt to enforce religious doctrine via law. Theocracy here we come.
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I am not religious. Mind blown, right? There went that argument.
 
JimOfAllTrades said:
Do you really not see that your frequent use of (juvenile, at best) sarcasm makes your arguments not only less clear but also seem silly? Try just making your points clearly and straight up.
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Some around here claim it isn't sarcasm, you know.
 
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