• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II

Status
Not open for further replies.
JesseCuster said:
Are you pathologically incapable of answering questions?

You were asked how sinking a ship at midnight sends a message and your answer is about formal warnings given to the New Statesman?

How does sinking a ship at midnight send a message?
Click to expand...

Are you pathologically rude? The question asked was, 'Wouldn't' they have to tell someone they did it though?'
 
So how did you study them? How in depth did you go? Aside from the Winter War and The Continuation War have you studied much about the Soviet Union? Anything about the activities of the KGB?
 
Vixen said:
It is hardly going to own up to it.

But the message was clear. Unlike the two Al-Quaeda terrorists who thought they could blow up the USS Cole simply by ramming a small ship into it with 400lbs - 700lbs of explosives - the people behind the Estonia knew exactly how to ensure it would go no further.

The timing, the location, the signal jamming of international distress Channel 16, the sheer speed of sinking: a coincidence?
Click to expand...

So there were no 'formal warnings' that a ship would be sunk at midnight?

Why did you say there were two of them?

What is the point of this 'precision' and message if you don't tell anyone?
 
Vixen said:
Are you pathologically rude? The question asked was, 'Wouldn't' they have to tell someone they did it though?'
Click to expand...

There was (IMHO) nothing rude about that question. You have, at this point, a well established history of responding to questions with non sequiturs and irrelevancies. If you would just answer the questions asked there would be far less in the way of misunderstandings and frustrations. Please try, in your responses, to address the points raised by your fellow posters and we may be able to have something approaching a fruitful debate.
 
Last edited:
Vixen said:
Can't say the KGB has been any great focal point. Are you claiming one has to be an expert in the KGB to report on the Estonia tragedy?
Click to expand...

If you are making claims about KGB involvement in the sinking it would help if you could show some expertise and knowledge.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
So there were no 'formal warnings' that a ship would be sunk at midnight?

Why did you say there were two of them?

What is the point of this 'precision' and message if you don't tell anyone?
Click to expand...

If your neighbour knocks on your door and says rather menacingly, 'Stop parking on my drive', and this happens yet a second time, this time he puts his face right up against yours as he grabs your lapels.

A week later, you park your car in his drive. The next morning you discover all the tyres punctured.

What is your conclusion?

Did you get the message, or did you miss it?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
If you are making claims about KGB involvement in the sinking it would help if you could show some expertise and knowledge.
Click to expand...

This.

You can't cast aspersions on the KGB and hint that something matches their style if you don't know anything about the KGB.
 
Ok, the Russian replacement for the KGB.

You made allegations about Putin and hinted at his involvement. Do you genuinely not remember?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
If my bows fell off I would turn away from the waves.
If a ship is not under command it will turn broadside on to the waves.
If power is lost it will turn broadside to the waves and drift downwind.
Click to expand...

And I'd think that if the boat was heeling starboard and water entering through the bow ramp area, the boat would tend to starboard if it had forward momentum. This is just my intuition, so I could be mistaken.
 
Vixen said:
If your neighbour knocks on your door and says rather menacingly, 'Stop parking on my drive', and this happens yet a second time, this time he puts his face right up against yours as he grabs your lapels.

A week later, you park your car in his drive. The next morning you discover all the tyres punctured.

What is your conclusion?

Did you get the message, or did you miss it?
Click to expand...

Where are the 'formal warnings' from Russia that a ship would be sunk at midnight in the Baltic?
 
phiwum said:
And I'd think that if the boat was heeling starboard and water entering through the bow ramp area, the boat would tend to starboard if it had forward momentum. This is just my intuition, so I could be mistaken.
Click to expand...

It would turn away from the waves, if the waves were on the port bow it would fall away to starboard and vice versa.

If I was commanding a ship taking a list to starboard I would be tempted to turn to starboard and the ship would tend to heel to port and maybe help correct the list.

If I knew there was a problem with the bows I would certainly cut speed and turn the bow away from the sea.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Ok, the Russian replacement for the KGB.

You made allegations about Putin and hinted at his involvement. Do you genuinely not remember?
Click to expand...

Did you not spot the retraction or are you one of those people, who, if your room mate spills some tea, you will make sure you go on and on and on about it every day for the next twenty years because you are so delighted you have one over on them. Or would that come across as being vindictive, so you don't?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
So why do you bring the KGB in to it?
Click to expand...


The Russian intelligence services at the time were well known for doing their own thing with Yeltsin having no control over them. Or do you dispute this observation? If you dispute this then make a case saying you dispute it instead of claiming they have been unfairly slimed.
 
Vixen said:
Sent to M16, and through diplomatic channels, apparently.

Have you managed to find any clues as to who might have punctured your tyres yet?
Click to expand...

So you have no evidence for any 'formal warnings' from Russia that they were going to sink a ship at midnight.

I don't have any punctured tyres, what does that have to do with it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom