Chanakya
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Starting with would-be scientific, moving on to merely ignorant, and then further on to brazen shameless proselytizing, we seem now to have moved on to actual gibbering insanity.
The supernatural
- Thread starter heydarian saeed
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Starting with would-be scientific, moving on to merely ignorant, and then further on to brazen shameless proselytizing, we seem now to have moved on to actual gibbering insanity.
MarkCorrigan
Героям слава!
That is a lie and you know it. I've made more than one post explaining why your arguments failed. You ignored them.
Answer my counter arguments please. Stop pretending they don't exist.
Utter bilge. Just because you don't like my counter arguments doesn't mean they are without reason. Deal with my arguments please. Stop handwaving.
Hilariously ironic. Multiple people have done exactly that. You just ignored them and continued preaching. You can go back through the thread and find my arguments or I can get them for you yet again if you like, but if I do that you have to actually deal with them this time rather than just saying you don't agree.
I did. You ignored me. More than once.
I don't know which research project you are referring too, but the link that you gave is not to any research paper; instead it's just a link to a load of pictures such as you'd find from any Google search ...
... do you really not understand what it means to give a link when you refer to any specific research project?
As for your claim that this was all predicted 1400 years ago in the Koran, that is of course the same old 100% dishonest theist argument that all Christians and Muslims make when claiming that numerous entirely general and non-specific words & sentences in the bible and/or Koran really mean things that we have only found out about thousands of years later through science … such as you now claiming that a sentence which says “by the sky with it's fabrics”, claiming that must surely be a prophecy for 21st century discoveries about what astronomers have for centuries called “the fabric of space” … see the following typical idiotic lying Islamic link/website -
http://kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/astronomu-a-space/92-al-hobuk
But there is no actual “fabric” in space! … and there is also no “pathes” there either (where a different interpretation of the Koran apparently has that sentence as “by the sky with it's
I'm sorry to say it, but when theists like yourself make claims like this about the meaning of words and sentences in the Koran (or the bible), you are simply lying, and doing that with impunity as if you have no regard whatsoever for the truth.
If these things are supposed to be prophecies from God (or from Prophets communicating with God), why is it that the examples never give a clear proper description such as saying “what we can see in the dark night sky as shining stars, are all actually formed from large patches of nebula (which we describe below) that are composed of hydrogen, helium, dust etc. (again all described below) which collapses together under a force of gravity (again, see below) and which then undergo nuclear reactions (see below) and emit what we see as shining light & heat” … why does it never describe a star like that? … why does it only ever say something useless like “oh for the heavens have been mercifully filled with the shining lights” ?? …
… why does it never say something like “in the years after 1900 a man named Einstein will discover something that he will call Relativity Theory, and this will fully explain a force he calls “Gravity” as the thing which keeps all humans, all animals, rocks, and earth and seas etc. fixed to the ground, so that it does not all float off into the skies!” … why does it never say that??
… this is just like the equally mad claims of ghost hunters, UFO enthusiasts, and indeed people who claim all sorts of religious miracles, where, when they are asked for evidence, either produce nothing at all, or else they produce some extremely fuzzy faint pictures that really do not show anything clearly at all … so it's the same question again – why is their claimed evidence (just like your "evidence") never clear? … why is it always so completely tenuous and unclear that it could mean absoutely anything, or absolutely nothing, at all!!
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heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello dear professor. I give you and my dear associations the right. You have entered a terrible madness with my words. Because you do not believe in the Quran and God. Therefore, you do not accept these words in any way. And this is normal. Do not worry. But we firmly believe in the Qur'an and the word of God in its book. And we see the truth. In this true story of Noah, let me refer to the last relevant verse in Sura 11, which is verse 49.
In the translation of Yousef Ali, which is the favorite of some associates, it is stated for this verse:
"Such are some of the stories of the unseen, which We have revealed unto thee: before this, neither thou nor thy people knew them. So persevere patiently: for the End is for those who are righteous."
You see, there is unseen news. And no one knows except God. If you pay attention, there is the least documented historical and archeological evidence for this story of Noah! And God Himself has said that no one knows even Muhammad and his people to whom the Qur'an was revealed! Well, it is natural that it is not acceptable at all for us who are in the 21th century. But we Muslims consider the word of God to be documented and true in the Qur'an. And the evidence is real to us.
And it is not a lie at all. But let me tell you later; I know what is the reason for starting this discussion and continuing it and insisting on knowing the details by you ?! Well, that's normal too. Your great attack is not against me. Rather, you have invaded Islam - the Qur'an and God. And you try to defeat them. I advise you and others that it is of no use. Because God is the custodian of his book. There are 14 centuries left and it will last forever.
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heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
It was a pity. I wanted to tell you the exact scientific facts about the existence of wormholes and black holes in the sky that are mentioned in the Qur'an. You know that right now in the Blue Project they are trying to go to the closest star to the solar system and the Alpha Centauri star by spaceship.
You know that this journey will take 6300 years. And there is a need for perhaps thousands of generations of humans to emerge on the ship !! Which is now almost impossible despite the current facilities. And all the effort and thought of scientists is to solve this issue. And the project is very exciting and interesting for the world.
Yes it is and it should be very valuable. Because the planet Earth is facing threats that will endanger the human race. So we have to think about traveling to a planet that is similar to Earth. Currently, this planet Alpha Centauri is our only option. You know that to spend 6300 years traveling in space !! The best option is to pass through wormholes and black holes. How to overcome this challenge ?! Answering and explaining these questions is extremely important in the Quran !! But unfortunately you do not want to believe.
This book is related to the origin of science and technology. If we accept and believe it, it will take us to those parallel worlds that are only possible through wormholes and black holes. The only way is to believe in this book. These scientific and technological facts I have already said are only in the Qur'an. It is not in any of the old books and holy books. You can check those books yourself but you will not find them. This book is not a copy of the Bible or Galen. And there is no copy of any book. We have in the Qur'an that a person with the same human physical body has traveled to all the heavens by the order of God with a special spaceship !!!
Unfortunately you do not want me to say. Or are you kidding. Or you throw stones. Or go back to 5000 years ago !!! And he told the story of Noah. Get out of ancient times. Come to the 21th century. Think of a spaceship to travel to Alpha Centauri. I like you.
The Qur'an does not say to use centrifugal force or plasma or water to build a special spaceship. It does not say to use genome-containing capsules to take the human race into space. No, he does not say that. Says that ... you can reach this technology. And take man himself into space! And stay healthy! And bend the space-time screen !! And open the wormhole valve and go through parallel worlds through it !!
It is discussed in at least 30 verses of the Qur'an. The interested and faithful seeker wants to understand and discover these things in the Qur'an.
If I say that your terrible madness is much greater, then I am silent. I see your sticks. I see your beatings. I see your rudeness and disrespect. I see your ridicule. No problem, I'm patient. Click and relax. And I'm sorry.
I like you. I am not Unattended. There is a God. I am All alone. And there is God. Hope to meet.
You know that this journey will take 6300 years. And there is a need for perhaps thousands of generations of humans to emerge on the ship !! Which is now almost impossible despite the current facilities. And all the effort and thought of scientists is to solve this issue. And the project is very exciting and interesting for the world.
Yes it is and it should be very valuable. Because the planet Earth is facing threats that will endanger the human race. So we have to think about traveling to a planet that is similar to Earth. Currently, this planet Alpha Centauri is our only option. You know that to spend 6300 years traveling in space !! The best option is to pass through wormholes and black holes. How to overcome this challenge ?! Answering and explaining these questions is extremely important in the Quran !! But unfortunately you do not want to believe.
This book is related to the origin of science and technology. If we accept and believe it, it will take us to those parallel worlds that are only possible through wormholes and black holes. The only way is to believe in this book. These scientific and technological facts I have already said are only in the Qur'an. It is not in any of the old books and holy books. You can check those books yourself but you will not find them. This book is not a copy of the Bible or Galen. And there is no copy of any book. We have in the Qur'an that a person with the same human physical body has traveled to all the heavens by the order of God with a special spaceship !!!
Unfortunately you do not want me to say. Or are you kidding. Or you throw stones. Or go back to 5000 years ago !!! And he told the story of Noah. Get out of ancient times. Come to the 21th century. Think of a spaceship to travel to Alpha Centauri. I like you.
The Qur'an does not say to use centrifugal force or plasma or water to build a special spaceship. It does not say to use genome-containing capsules to take the human race into space. No, he does not say that. Says that ... you can reach this technology. And take man himself into space! And stay healthy! And bend the space-time screen !! And open the wormhole valve and go through parallel worlds through it !!
It is discussed in at least 30 verses of the Qur'an. The interested and faithful seeker wants to understand and discover these things in the Qur'an.
If I say that your terrible madness is much greater, then I am silent. I see your sticks. I see your beatings. I see your rudeness and disrespect. I see your ridicule. No problem, I'm patient. Click and relax. And I'm sorry.
I like you. I am not Unattended. There is a God. I am All alone. And there is God. Hope to meet.
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Mojo
Mostly harmless
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Blatantly untrue. People have repeatedly asked you to provide references that support your claims.
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Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
You've already conceded that none of the recent scientific discoveries you claim (absurdly) were anticipated in the Qu'ran actually owe anything to it. Humanity's knowledge and understanding, and technological achievements, will continue to grow regardless of your book. We don't need it, in fact the hate and bigotry it mostly consists of is a hindrance, not a help.
We don't find them in the Qu'ran. We could, however, take pretty much any other book and find ways to interpret sentences in them to mean whatever we want them to, just as you have done with the Qu'ran.
Chanakya
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heydarian, your unflappable courtesy makes me regret the stridency in my earlier comment, but I do stand by the content of what I'd said.
Without at this time going into my opinion on Islam as a whole, frankly your statement that, and I quote, "we have three prophets who are still alive: Khidr 6000 years - Jesus 2000 years - Elijah 2900 years", is quite literally insane, or at least, out-and-out delusional. This is the kind of delusion that might get someone locked up, if their delusion were solitary and idiosyncratic, but gets a free pass under the umbrella term "religion" because thousands and millions others share those delusions.
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Let me make my personal position clear, for what it is worth.
I don't share your faith. But I don't begrudge you your faith either, and have no desire to de-convert you. I'm happy to engage with your defense of your faith in scientific terms, which is what you'd claimed you'd do in your OP; and I'm open to discussing your faith purely as faith, simply because the subject interest me, sometimes.
But I'm afraid you showed your true colors by getting down to brazen proselytizing. I'm referring to your post #1107, that I think you addressed to me (because it came immediately after a few posts that you did directly address to me; and even if not to me personally, it was certainly addressed to all of us in that case). It was clear at that point that your would-be scientific discussion was no more than a fig leaf for promoting your religion here.
No matter how many "dear friend"s and "dear association"s and "i love you dear heart"s you throw in, it is not civil, and nor is it peaceable, to tell people, as you clearly did in that post of yours, that your God will visit His wrath and His punishment on those of us who despite having heard of Him still do not accept Him.
Think of it this way. What if we started telling you that you, heydarian, you personally, are going to hell because you do not accept Jesus into your heart (not as mere prophet but as Son of God); that you are going to be eternally damned for following the false prophet Mohammed and rejecting the Son of God; and that because you don't guide your family towards the real God therefore your family will also likewise be damned through eternity? That is exactly the kind of thing that has been the basis of actual wars in the past, and a great deal of strife at some places even now.
(That's just a hypothetical, by the way. I don't actually believe the Jesus story either, or any other, and am not actually saying you're damned, let's be clear on that, the translation software notwithstanding. Like I said, just a hypothetical.)
Think about it. No matter how courteous your outward tone and delivery, saying things like that is neither civil nor peaceable.
My words were not an attack on you personally, heydarian, nor on your faith. I have no quarrel with your faith. But I do take exception to brazen proselytizing, I do take exception to being threatened with God's wrath, and I do think it is literally delusional to believe in 2000-years-old still-living prophets.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello dear
- In the Qur'an, he has stated the existing reality. It is not a prediction. He has said what is. But in the seventh century, its people did not have knowledge. And they did not understand anything. And man has understood and discovered those Qur'anic facts in the twentieth and twenty-first century. Did you pay attention?
- It does not say that the cloth hangs in the sky. Or the sky is like cloth. This is a funny thing. pay attention. He says the sky is like a tightly woven and beautiful fabric. That is, it describes the shape of the sky as a tightly woven fabric.And NASA has seen this description of the Qur'an in the sky in the 21st century. And he took a photo. Did you pay attention?
- For nuclear interactions that occur continuously in the sun. The Qur'an describes for seventh-century human beings who did not understand these things. Says the sun with a dazzling light and distinguishes it from other lights.! It says this in Sura 10, verse 5. Did you pay attention?
- Einstein's general relativity is stated in Sura 18/ 17.
- Einstein's special relativity is stated in Sura 22/ 47.
I have said it many times. Again, do not be content to understand the meaning of the verses of the Qur'an in the simple sense in the translations. Rather, refer to Arabic language teachers who are fluent in the Qur'an. I refer to these sources in the interpretation and meaning of Quranic verses.
Good luck
MarkCorrigan
Героям слава!
Oh look you're back. So, care to finally deal with my rebuttals yet?
Lothian
should be banned
It has been explained many times by many people that you are failing to bend a modern understanding onto an ancient text that does not describe our current knowledge in either a useful or accurate way.
You have not been paying attention!
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
- Thank you very much for your kindness. I would also like to discuss this common goal with you. And dare to learn science. I am ready to learn from you. Regardless of our beliefs.
- No. I do not preach Islam or the Qur'an. If you are careful, you will ask me different questions and I will answer. Although you do not accept my answers, but your approach is a very good propaganda for Islam and the Qur'an.
This means that you yourself are a very good propagandist for Islam and the Qur'an with these questions and discussions. These are not your questions in my mind. But in your mind and you ask.
- Yes, rest assured that God sees us all. And in the Hereafter he will judge us all. And the important thing is that; The document of God's trial is only our own deeds.
- We accept Jesus as the divine prophet with the Bible. The Prophet is peace and friendship. And we have a lot of respect. And my family and I especially love Jesus. But he is not the Son of God. Because God is alone. And no connection reaches him. Because if we make any connection to God, we are partners. And this is a great sin.That is, God has no family ties.
- If God takes me to hell for these beliefs or my sins. I obey his command. And I totally agree. God's command is applicable to me. And I have no idea. I submit to his command.
- The basis of wars in the past, present and future is none for the sake of God. Not because of religion. Because of our extravagance, we humans, because of our stupidity, humans. The religion of Islam is very simple and easy. We humans fight for our personal interests. And we are bleeding. God does not want war. He wants peace and goodness. I hate the existence of wars in the world in the first place. Secondly, I object to the International Organization. Why not prevent wars? Of course, I know that the esteemed members of the United Nations are working hard. But it is not perfect. They should try harder. What is a veto? On what basis is it formulated? You just want more. The veto should only come from the United Nations itself. Not any other country. What is the basis if the UN itself has enacted this law? Is there pressure from powerful countries? it's wrong. Maybe not. But I know that this is the heart of this law. And that's a big mistake.
I personally follow Cyrus the Great in international relations. And we Iranians are proud. However, the Iranians may not pay attention to this point either. But I firmly believe that Cyrus the Great is a great man of history. And although he had different opinions from all nations, he treated all of them with kindness.
Now you may say that I am preaching for my country or the historical figure of Cyrus the Great. No. These are my ideas.
-Your hypothesis is good, it can express your thoughts. I personally respect the thoughts and words of all human beings. Although I do not accept. But I like it very much because of the importance of the principle of freedom of thought. And I have no objection. And I would love to hear. And give my opinion. I do not think there is a problem with this approach.
- Again, thank you very much for your kindness. That I said God's wrath and threat. it is normal. Because in the Qur'an all subjects are stated. I am talking about science in the Qur'an. I speak of God's kindness. I would also like to mention the wrath of God and His punishment for the inappropriate approach of some people.
And the correct judgment of all this is with God. He knows and sees what everyone is aiming for.
Thank you very much, logical and honest teacher.
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MarkCorrigan
Героям слава!
You are absolutely preaching.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
No. You pay attention. The Qur'an refers to the science and reality of the universe. And described. And it has motivated you and me to explore science. The Qur'an has not rejected science. But also confirmed. And admired. And it has motivated us to always seek science. I do not know how difficult it is to understand this ?! The Qur'an and science are together and are not separate.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hi. Where are you, Master? I miss you. welcome.
Scorpion
Illuminator
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Quran 22.47 ,' A day in the sight of the lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.'
This says nothing about relativity, and is another quote stolen from the bible.
Bible 2Peter 3.8 But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is as with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
To be honest: I like arguing with you. You are not denying me, you are helping me to be approved. I am glad. Thanks
MarkCorrigan
Героям слава!
Absolute gibberish. Also it is ironic that you are asking others to pay attention when it is clear you do not.
Now will you PLEASE answer the refutations to your arguments that you cribbed from Aquinas?
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