The supernatural

[Scorpion]

I recommend that it is better to refer to the text of the Qur'an and what God says. And get the answer to the ambiguities from the Qur'an itself. The word of God is accurate and complete...

And there we have it, you actually believe the mumbling, nonsensical Quran is the word of God.

You must be intelligent to post all the stuff about science that you have done.
Why can't you see the many flaws in the Quran?

 

[Scorpion]

More evidence the quran is not from God. The quran incorrectly copies the bible by saying that Noah lived 950 years, but this is a miss translation in the bible made by an early scribe.
Quran says Noah lived 950 years:
Quran 29:14:
Quote:

YUSUFALI: We (once) sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years less fifty: but the Deluge overwhelmed them while they (persisted in) sin.

PICKTHAL: And verily we sent Noah (as Our messenger) unto his folk, and he continued with them for a thousand years save fifty years; and the flood engulfed them, for they were wrong-doers.

SHAKIR: And certainly We sent Nuh to his people, so he remained among them a thousand years save fifty years. And the deluge overtook them, while they were unjust.

Genesis chapter 9
Quote:

28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.
29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.


When translating Genesis they screwed up the numbering system. This shows directly that the Quran copied a translation of Genesis and therefore the Quran didn't come from God.

The incredible numbers in Genesis 5 were the result of an ancient scribe mistranslating some archaic pre-cuneiform numbers into cuneiform sexagesimal numbers. The incredible numbers in the Sumerian King List were also mistranslated by another ancient scribe. This book successfully matches the Genesis 5 numbers to the Sumerian King List numbers.

 

[heydarian saeed]

The foetus begins to move and perceive when it reaches the stage of development at which that naturally occurs. No soul is required for this to happen, it just means the baby has reached that point in its development.

https://web.archive.org/web/2007021...cy.org/duringpregnancy/firstfetalmovement.htm

Hello. Please refer to my suggested experiment. And do it to see what happens. This is also the objective and material evidence that you would like to see. Do it well. I am waiting.
Do you also think that fetal growth reaches that point by chance? By what logic do you say this ?! What is your reason? Do you believe in the flow of affairs in nature and matter accidentally ? Is this a good insight and approach, dear friend ?! And you confirm it ?! Do not forget Einstein's universal idea? God never rolls the dice .... nothing happens. Fully accurate and calculated.

 

[heydarian saeed]

It's because the very base concept of "Supernatural" is just special pleading, pure and simple.

"There's these magical forces that can effect the world but not be detected or tested for."

Hi dear friend. This vision is correct and not magic. (Supernatural)
I have a question for you: What is dark matter and dark energy that make up most of the mass and energy of the universe? Is it magic ?! Or because we do not know what we think is magic? Which? please reply.

 

[Pixel42]

Hello. Please refer to my suggested experiment. And do it to see what happens. This is also the objective and material evidence that you would like to see. Do it well. I am waiting.

As I already told you, I have talked to pregnant women many times. The moment when their baby first starts to move is special, obviously, but there is nothing supernatural about it.

Do you also think that fetal growth reaches that point by chance?

No of course not.

The only part chance plays in evolution (and therefore in its consequencess, like foetal development) is the provision of variety, the raw material upon which natural selection acts. Natural selection is a far more powerful force than pure chance, but it is not a conscious force.

It sounds like you need to educate yourself about what Darwin's Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection actually says.

Do not forget Einstein's universal idea? God never rolls the dice .... nothing happens. Fully accurate and calculated.

Einstein's reluctance to accept the reality of quantum theory was understandable, but he has been shown to have been wrong to reject it.

It sounds like you need to educate yourself about quantum theory too.

 

[heydarian saeed]

And there we have it, you actually believe the mumbling, nonsensical Quran is the word of God.

You must be intelligent to post all the stuff about science that you have done.
Why can't you see the many flaws in the Quran?

Hello dear and loving friend. No, it is not. I and the whole universe can not find any flaws in the Qur'an if they come together. This is your thinking and approach because you do not speak Arabic and Quranic. I have already advised you that it is better to ask the meanings of the Qur'an from a fluent Arabic teacher in order to judge correctly. I have a question for you; if you get sick, do you go to a specialist doctor or a dairy shop? !! Your thinking and that of some friends is that you only refer to Yusuf Ali and people like him. Of course, if such a person has an external existence in the universe! I will tell you: just one word of the Qur'an may have 70 different meanings and each meaning has 70 types of interpretation. Look at the Quran carefully. Not with bigotry and naivety. Thank you very much

 

[Susheel]

First of all Dark Matter and Dark Energy are two different things. It is not magic. Until recently it was just a mathematical construct based on established principles, used to reconcile certain gaps between what was observed and what was theorised, particularly with regard to the expansion of the universe.
Recent observations over the past year seem to prove more and more that these exist. But the actual nature and its properties are still unknown, but physicists, both theoretical and experimental, are working on ways to identify and measure it. I can see that this must be for you, a very tempting gap into which you want to shoe-horn your god.

 

[Susheel]

I and the whole universe can not find any flaws in the Qur'an if they come together.

You have combined two things together quite dishonestly. I will parse your claim for you.

"I cannot find any flaws in the Quran..."
That says more about your own limitations than anything else. It does not in any way add to the validity of the Quran

"The whole universe caanot find any flaws..."
Two mistakes here. You are giving the universe a consciousness and human traits (anthropomorphization), and there is no evidence it has these. Secondly, you presume to speak for the entire universe....on what grounds?

 

[Susheel]

. I have already advised you that it is better to ask the meanings of the Qur'an from a fluent Arabic teacher in order to judge correctly. I have a question for you; if you get sick, do you go to a specialist doctor or a dairy shop? ...

By that logic, if I want to learn about the universe, I will not go to a religious book based on the ramblings of an illiterate former indentured servant. I would approach a physicist.

 

[heydarian saeed]

More evidence the quran is not from God. The quran incorrectly copies the bible by saying that Noah lived 950 years, but this is a miss translation in the bible made by an early scribe.
Quran says Noah lived 950 years:
Quran 29:14:
Quote:

YUSUFALI: We (once) sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years less fifty: but the Deluge overwhelmed them while they (persisted in) sin.

PICKTHAL: And verily we sent Noah (as Our messenger) unto his folk, and he continued with them for a thousand years save fifty years; and the flood engulfed them, for they were wrong-doers.

SHAKIR: And certainly We sent Nuh to his people, so he remained among them a thousand years save fifty years. And the deluge overtook them, while they were unjust.

Genesis chapter 9
Quote:

28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.
29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.


When translating Genesis they screwed up the numbering system. This shows directly that the Quran copied a translation of Genesis and therefore the Quran didn't come from God.

The incredible numbers in Genesis 5 were the result of an ancient scribe mistranslating some archaic pre-cuneiform numbers into cuneiform sexagesimal numbers. The incredible numbers in the Sumerian King List were also mistranslated by another ancient scribe. This book successfully matches the Genesis 5 numbers to the Sumerian King List numbers.

No, this is not the case. Noah lived nine hundred and fifty years. This is the obvious word of the Qur'an. And there is no doubt about it. The name of Noah is mentioned 43 times in the Qur'an.
During Noah's lifetime there was disagreement between the divine scriptures and history. And is listed from 930 years to 2500 years.
But the problem you put on the magnifying glass I think is because of this:
Part of Noah's life, which was almost 350 years, by God's command on the way to Mesopotamia to the Persian Gulf, his only job was to plant a palm tree. This is in the history of Noah's life. The scribe may have thought that this age of Noah's palm was the perfect age of Noah. Or he meant 350 years at the time of his life in planting palms.
Not the whole life of Noah. Or, as you say, it was really a typo! Punctuation mistake
Thank you for your attention. I recommend that you pay more attention and read the history along with the Quran of Yusuf Ali. Or if you read the meaning of Makarem, refer to its interpretation.
Thank you very much.

 

[Susheel]

No, this is not the case. Noah lived nine hundred and fifty years. This is the obvious word of the Qur'an. And there is no doubt about it. The name of Noah is mentioned 43 times in the Qur'an.
During Noah's lifetime there was disagreement between the divine scriptures and history. And is listed from 930 years to 2500 years.
But the problem you put on the magnifying glass I think is because of this:
Part of Noah's life, which was almost 350 years, by God's command on the way to Mesopotamia to the Persian Gulf, his only job was to plant a palm tree. This is in the history of Noah's life. The scribe may have thought that this age of Noah's palm was the perfect age of Noah. Or he meant 350 years at the time of his life in planting palms.
Not the whole life of Noah. Or, as you say, it was really a typo! Punctuation mistake
Thank you for your attention. I recommend that you pay more attention and read the history along with the Quran of Yusuf Ali. Or if you read the meaning of Makarem, refer to its interpretation.
Thank you very much.

OK...you have just demolished your entire argument. You have categorically stated that the proof of the supernatural requires the assumption of the existence of the supernatural. That is not how logic and scientific enquiry works.

 

[IanS]

I recommend that it is better to refer to the text of the Qur'an and what God says. And get the answer to the ambiguities from the Qur'an itself. The word of God is accurate and complete...

You have an ancient religious book, about 1500 years old ... how do you know that the words of your book are actually the words of any God?

Just because 1500 years ago when people first constructed your holy book, various people convinced themselves and convinced others that a God dictated the words, that's not any sort of proof or evidence that the words came from any God ...

... can you produce any proof (or even any genuine evidence) that a God existed to write or dictate the words of your holy book (or any book)?

Christians believe the same about the bible. They also believe the bible contains the words of God (and the words of Jesus, who is usually believed also to be God in a different Earthly form) ... but despite their claims, they actually have zero evidence of any God existing to produce any words in any book ...

... you believe in what afaik is actually the same God (Allah) ... but you also have zero evidence that any such God ever existed to write or dictate or do anything.

 

[Susheel]

Also, you need to learn the difference between history and fantasy. The story of Noah, his life span, the ark are all basically mythological fantasy.

 

[heydarian saeed]

As I already told you, I have talked to pregnant women many times. The moment when their baby first starts to move is special, obviously, but there is nothing supernatural about it.


No of course not.

The only part chance plays in evolution (and therefore in its consequencess, like foetal development) is the provision of variety, the raw material upon which natural selection acts. Natural selection is a far more powerful force than pure chance, but it is not a conscious force.

It sounds like you need to educate yourself about what Darwin's Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection actually says.



Einstein's reluctance to accept the reality of quantum theory was understandable, but he has been shown to have been wrong to reject it.

It sounds like you need to educate yourself about quantum theory too.

Thank you for your kindness for the educational advice. I do not want to specialize in these areas that you mentioned. My specialty is occupational health and industrial safety. And because of my interest in the Qur'an, I read the Qur'an from the age of 5 until I am 50 years old. But do you follow Darwin's theory? Theory theory has many drawbacks. And this is out of the question. And Einstein just made a mistake about quantum and accepted it. At the end of his life
And that you said you heard pregnant women talk. And they do not move in any particular motion. Well it's normal. This movement is completely normal and no one is supposed to see the soul or realize its existence with this fetal movement.
Of course, the movement of the fetus is felt by the mother at the age of 4 to 6 months. And there is no doubt about that. And medical science confirms this in embryology. My talk was to prove the movement of the fetus and the beginning of perception at this age after the arrival of the soul, which I gave you two recommendations. And using the relevant equipment to scan and monitor this issue. I'm on my word.
Of course, the movement of the fetus is felt by the mother at the age of 4 to 6 months. And there is no doubt about that. And medical science confirms this in embryology. My talk was to prove the movement of the fetus and the beginning of perception at this age after the arrival of the soul, which I gave you two recommendations. Using the relevant equipment to scan and monitor this issue. To prove to you that there is no difference and that the stage of the soul must enter in order for the fetus to find life and perceptions. I'm on my word.
I mean to find out the cause of movement - life and perception of the fetus. There is a difference between the developmental stage of the fetus and the final cause in the life of the fetus. It is better to think more about the difference that clarifies the cause. Natural selection that overcomes luck because it is stronger never states the cause. This is a delicate and sensitive point. Do not simply ignore it.
What is the cause of movement and life and perception of the fetus? And at what stage does it happen? The answer to this question is the entry of the soul.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Hello dear friend and tactfully. I do not mean the sight of the harmony of the parallel and supernatural worlds that are not visible. But its effects and signs, which are material, are visible. Continuing this discussion; I have already said in posts 367 and 418 and subsequent posts that, for reasons of logical and philosophical reasoning, "science and perception" and "God" exist first, and secondly, are supernatural.
In order not to prolong my speech, please refer to the mentioned posts. And see the proof of what I said. But to see their evidence and material works with the special equipment you mentioned. I point out that science and perception are visible throughout the universe. All scientific documents - related pictures and videos - scientific meetings and many cases that indicate the existence of human science and perception are available. And is visible.
And you can see the evidence for the existence of God by seeing everything in the universe. Everything in the universe tells you the sign and effect of its creator and maker, God. And shows you God. They show you the knowledge of God - the power of God - the greatness and majesty of God and all the worthy attributes of existence...

I have already read and commented on those previous posts and noted that they do not contain evidence of the supernatural.

The claim that we can see God's work all around us is not proof or evidence that what we see around us is God's work. It is only a claim that this is so, and claims are not evidence. They only appeal to those who already believe them to be true. It has already been discussed that various religions declaring nature to be made by their God or Gods does not explain how everything began, it just poses the new question of how these Gods began.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

...
Article final:
I argue that the soul has a different creation from the body and is abstract from matter

Whereas I argue that the soul is imaginary and does not exist. If you wish to base an argument on the nature of the soul, you will at some point have to demonstrate that the soul exists.

 

[Scorpion]

No, this is not the case. Noah lived nine hundred and fifty years. This is the obvious word of the Qur'an. And there is no doubt about it. The name of Noah is mentioned 43 times in the Qur'an.
During Noah's lifetime there was disagreement between the divine scriptures and history. And is listed from 930 years to 2500 years.
But the problem you put on the magnifying glass I think is because of this:
Part of Noah's life, which was almost 350 years, by God's command on the way to Mesopotamia to the Persian Gulf, his only job was to plant a palm tree. This is in the history of Noah's life. The scribe may have thought that this age of Noah's palm was the perfect age of Noah. Or he meant 350 years at the time of his life in planting palms.
Not the whole life of Noah. Or, as you say, it was really a typo! Punctuation mistake
Thank you for your attention. I recommend that you pay more attention and read the history along with the Quran of Yusuf Ali. Or if you read the meaning of Makarem, refer to its interpretation.
Thank you very much.

Nobody ever lived 950 years, that is a certain biological fact. As for Noah's ark, the story is obviously a Jewish myth, not real history.


It is my conclusion that the quran is largely stolen from the bible and other sources. The quran which is supposed to be the words of God contains references to many Jewish myths from the bible. It then presents them as true historical facts. Do Muslims really believe in Noahs ark, or Moses turning his staff into a snake, or Jonah being swallowed by a whale and spat up on a beach. Because all these stories are in the quran. Surely this proves the quran is not from God.

Here is the story of the Ark in the quran, sura 11.37

11.37. "But construct an Ark under Our eyes and Our inspiration, and address Me no (further) on behalf of those who are in sin: for they are about to be overwhelmed (in the Flood)."
11.38. Forthwith he starts constructing the Ark: every time that the Chiefs of his People passed by him, they threw ridicule on him. They threw ridicule on him. He said: "If ye ridicule us now, we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise!
11.39. "But soon will ye know who it is on whom will descend a Penalty that will cover them with shame on whom will be unloosed a Penalty lasting."
11.40. At length behold! There came Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: "Embark therein of each kind two, male and female, and your family except those against whom the Word has already gone forth and the Believers." But only a few believed with him.
11.41. So he said: "Embark ye on the Ark in the name of Allah, whether it move or be at rest! For my Lord is, be sure, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful!"
11.42. So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! Embark with us, and be not with the Unbelievers!"
11.43. The son replied: "I will be take myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the Command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy!"? and the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.
11.44. When the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"

Here is the story of Moses turning his staff into a snake.


26.29. (Pharaoh) said: "If thou dost put forward any god other than me, I will certainly put thee in prison!"
26.30. (Moses) said: "Even if I showed you something clear (and) convincing?"
26.31. (Pharaoh) said: "Show it then, if thou tellest the truth!"
26.32. So (Moses) threw his rod, and behold it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)!
26.33. And he drew out his hand, and behold, it was white to all beholders!
26.34. (Pharaoh) said to the Chiefs around him: "This is indeed a sorcerer well-versed:


Here is the story of Jonah being swallowed by a whale.


37.139. So also was Jonah among those sent (by us).
37.140. When he ran away (like slave from captivity) to the ship (fully) laden
37.141. He (agreed to) cast lots, and he was condemned:
37.142. Then the big Fish did swallow him, and he had done acts worthy of blame.
37.143. Had it not been that he (repented and) glorified Allah,
37.144. He would certainly have remained inside the Fish till the Day of Resurrection.
37.145. But We cast him forth, on the naked shore in a state of sickness

 

[Pixel42]

I do not want to specialize in these areas that you mentioned.

It is not necessary to specialise in a subject to grasp its basic principles. This subject is not my speciality either but I was introduced to it at primary school, and had learned enough about it to avoid the mistakes you are making by the time I left school.

You are making statements about natural biological processes, like foetal development, which appear to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding of those processes and how they evolved. So you need to either educate yourself on the subject, or refrain from making statements about it which only demonstrate your ignorance.

 

[Scorpion]

I and the whole universe can not find any flaws in the Qur'an if they come together.

I have listed several obvious flaws in the unholy Quran, you just can't see them because you have spent your life since you were 5 repeating this nonsense to yourself. Its time to grow up and see the Quran is rubbish.

You actually believe in a talking ant, and you must also believe in a flying donkey. then I have made clear in one of my posts that the Quran says the sun orbits the earth. It also says the moon was split in half and joined together again. Then it clearly says the stars are missiles to throw at devils.

But most of all I knew it was not the words of God as soon as I read the horrible verses of hellfire and that God will burn unbelievers for all eternity.

 

[Mojo]

But do you follow Darwin's theory? Theory theory has many drawbacks.

What “drawbacks”?