Texas bans abortion.

[Segnosaur]

I read somewhere that there are negative consequences to having an abortion anyway. Something to do with a greater risk of breast cancer.

Evidence of abortion leading to breast cancer is sketchy at best. A few studies say there is a slightly increased risk, most studies say there is nothing there.

Even more interesting, the reference you posted has the following:

In 2003, the US National Cancer Institute (NCI) held a workshop of more than 100 of the world’s leading experts...The experts reviewed human and animal studies...Some of their findings were:
- Breast cancer risk is increased for a short time after a full-term pregnancy (that is, a pregnancy that results in the birth of a living child).
- Induced abortion is not linked to an increase in breast cancer risk.

So if there is a link, its may actually be the opposite to the original claim... abortion actually reduces the risk of breast cancer.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It would actually be "more" honest if they just banned abortion.

Banning abortions but after X point where X point is before the point practically all women even know they are pregnant is like living a 1 cent tip instead of no tip.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Candidate Biden promised to make Roe "the law of the land" while running. Hard to see this Texas law as anything but a very thinly veiled challenge to Roe.

What's Biden gonna do about it?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Candidate Biden promised to make Roe "the law of the land" while running. Hard to see this Texas law as anything but a very thinly veiled challenge to Roe.

What's Biden gonna do about it?

What's he supposed to do?

 

[plague311]

Candidate Biden promised to make Roe "the law of the land" while running. Hard to see this Texas law as anything but a very thinly veiled challenge to Roe.

What's Biden gonna do about it?

What can he do about it? I'm not sure an executive order would work here.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

What can he do about it? I'm not sure an executive order would work here.

If there isn't anything he could do, why did he make this promise?

Democrats control the legislature and the executive. They could at least try something before giving up. At the very least, being seen fighting hard and losing this battle would sharpen the political contrasts and hopefully be remembered come election time.

The fact that Roe v Wade has been on the chopping block for 50 years is only due to the inaction of the legislature to codify this legal ruling into black letter law.

 

[Aridas]

It's law now. No abortion past 6 weeks. Roe v Wade has less meaning, as court did not take up the case.

6 conservatives.

To be fair, it's much easier to be a conservative judge. The constitution was written for white men who hated kings and favored a small government. At that time, states had most of the power.

The constitution is rather vague on human rights. Just guns (maybe) and free speech.

There's something fundamentally wrong about this assessment. It's hard to actually call the 6 right-wingers of the current Supreme Court "conservatives" when looking at them objectively. "Radical Right-wing Corporate activists" would be far more accurate. They ditch conservative legal principles at whim and have been doing things like resurrecting segregationist legal arguments that were unanimously rejected when advanced by the segregationists.

While I am no fan of abortion the new law which bans abortions even if the pregnancy came about as the result of rape seems a bit harsh to me. My problem with most abortions is this. Most pregnancies are the result of consentual sex and if you know how babies are made and you do that and get pregnant as a result then I feel the woman should be obligated to carry the baby full term and if she doesn't want it then put it up for adoption.

I'd have more sympathy for this general view if it weren't for the main political pushers of anti-abortion measures also pushing for the ineffective abstinence-only sex ed and strongly opposing birth control measures. Nigh no one is actually a fan of abortions, but it's also well worth noting that even just carrying a fetus to term causes significant burden on a woman, let alone actually birthing and everything after. Most abortions tend to be treated as necessary evils, IIRC.

All of these bits are completely irrelevant, and yet, people have been whipping themselves up into apoplexy arguing about them for decades. It's so annoying at this point, I almost want to laugh.

Technically, it goes back more than a few decades. The Catholic Church has been pretty much pushing it for a long time as part of its attempts to control. When it comes to the politically vocal Religious Right, though, it's actually rather obvious what was going on. When Roe v. Wade was decided, it wasn't actually an issue and generally speaking, the feelings towards the decision were positive. Fast forward a few years and Carter threatens the tax-exempt status of Religious Right organizations in response for how political they were getting in their defense of segregation. A bunch of their leaders get together with the leader of the Moral Majority (which was neither, of course) and then all of a sudden, they all started preaching fiery anti-abortion propaganda as a way to try to get rid of Carter as soon as possible and just didn't stop.

 

[Stacyhs]

While I am no fan of abortion the new law which bans abortions even if the pregnancy came about as the result of rape seems a bit harsh to me. My problem with most abortions is this. Most pregnancies are the result of consentual sex and if you know how babies are made and you do that and get pregnant as a result then I feel the woman should be obligated to carry the baby full term and if she doesn't want it then put it up for adoption.

1. NO ONE is a FAN of abortion. What do you think women go through emotionally who have to make this decision? Jesus Christ what a silly statement to make!

2. Great! So don't ever have an abortion if you're a woman. No one is going to force you to get one. But, damn, your assumption that "most women know how babies are made" means they didn't use some kind of protection is ignorant. NO birth control is 100% effective. Some women are allergic to birth control pills. I know one who had uncontrolled itching constantly that only stopped after she stopped taking her bc pill. IUD's can become dislodged and embedded in the uterus and actually have to be removed surgically, they can also slip partially out without knowing it becoming ineffective and can cause Pelvic Inflammatory Disease. Condoms can come off during intercourse or even have perforations allowing sperm to get through.

 

[Stacyhs]

My sister, a nurse, delivered many babies (She was head of the OB/GYN clinic in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia). But the worst birth she ever saw was an ELEVEN year old giving birth in the state of Montana. This TX sorry excuse for a law would prevent someone like her from having an abortion so the poor CHILD would be forced to have a child. Disgusting.

You couldn't pay me to live in Texas.

 

[dudalb]

the Ban is a clear case of a dog having caught the car - the majority of Americans has long gone to the pro-choice side, but it took Republicans until now to get the majorities to overturn Roe.
the winners of the Culture War have created societal facts that the holders of the political power fight at their own peril.

in short: should this ban be upheld, don't be surprised if Texas turns Blue.

You could not be more wrong.
You don't understand what the GOP Is doing:corrupting the whole election system so they have a total grip on power no matter how many Americans disagreee with them.Majorities won't matter.
Out political system has collapsed, authoratarian rule has half it's body in the door.
Optimistc feel good scenarios help only the enemy, time t face facts. We have a fascist movement on the brink of taking over.
I know I am going to get blasted for saying this, but more and more I thnk it will come down to a literal fight:Armed resistence to tryanny.
How anybody can look on the events of Jan. 6 and it's aftermath and not see fascism is on it's way and won;t be stopped at the ballot box is beyond me.

 

[plague311]

If there isn't anything he could do, why did he make this promise?

Good question, I've never heard of a politician making a promise they had no intention or ability to keep. So this is all uncharted territory for me too.

Democrats control the legislature and the executive. They could at least try something before giving up. At the very least, being seen fighting hard and losing this battle would sharpen the political contrasts and hopefully be remembered come election time.

This happened today. Now, yes, you're right in your following statement that the right has been trying to abolish this for awhile now, but it's never really been in serious jeopardy. The SCOTUS had ruled on it, all attempts to subvert it have been shot down, and until McConnell and Trump were able to stack the entire federal court system, it wasn't seen as a serious issue.

Is your idea to implement a federal law? How would that look? I'm not being snarky here, I'm just wondering how you could enforce abortion to all states. I think NoDak has 1 clinic on the Eastern side of the state.

The fact that Roe v Wade has been on the chopping block for 50 years is only due to the inaction of the legislature to codify this legal ruling into black letter law.

Yeah, if it were possible I'd support it. I don't know what it would look like or how they'd get it to pass with a 50/50 Senate where Manchin and Sonoma exist, but I'm all game for it if it's possible.

 

[dudalb]

Candidate Biden promised to make Roe "the law of the land" while running. Hard to see this Texas law as anything but a very thinly veiled challenge to Roe.

What's Biden gonna do about it?

Not much legally he can do.

 

[cosmicaug]

2. Great! So don't ever have an abortion if you're a woman. No one is going to force you to get one. But, damn, your assumption that "most women know how babies are made" means they didn't use some kind of protection is ignorant. NO birth control is 100% effective. Some women are allergic to birth control pills. I know one who had uncontrolled itching constantly that only stopped after she stopped taking her bc pill. IUD's can become dislodged and embedded in the uterus and actually have to be removed surgically, they can also slip partially out without knowing it becoming ineffective and can cause Pelvic Inflammatory Disease. Condoms can come off during intercourse or even have perforations allowing sperm to get through.

Let's not shift the argument here. None of that matters.

Suppose the woman is a slut. Suppose she is irresponsible. Suppose she wants to "use abortion as birth control" (just for the sake of argument —it doesn't matter that no one actually does this).

If she wants an abortion, she should be able to legally get a safe abortion. It's as simple as that. You don't even have to be a "fan" to accept that abortion is good and should be widely available in most circumstances.

A baby should not be the equivalent of a fine to be used for the purpose of punishing someone for being a slut*.

* And yes, I am using the word here to reflect the thinking behind much of the pro forced birth mindset and for effect. I am not using it because I think it should be generally used.

 

[dudalb]

Women's right issues aside...and I am not saying they are not important this is a huge step on the road to thocracy.
In the end, the whole "Life begins at conception" is based upon the soul entering the fetus ( I know the fetus does not exist at that point but I will just use the term for convience) at the moment of conception. That is a purely thelogical belief with no basis in science. Outlawing abortion is using Civil Law to enforce religious doctrine, and that to me is the ultimate act of tyranny.

 

[Stacyhs]

Let's not shift the argument here. None of that matters.

Suppose the woman is a slut. Suppose she is irresponsible. Suppose she wants to "use abortion as birth control" (just for the sake of argument —it doesn't matter that no one actually does this).

If she wants an abortion, she should be able to legally get a safe abortion. It's as simple as that. You don't even have to be a "fan" to accept that abortion is good and should be widely available in most circumstances.

A baby should not be the equivalent of a fine to be used for the purpose of punishing someone for being a slut*.

* And yes, I am using the word here to reflect the thinking behind much of the pro forced birth mindset and for effect. I am not using it because I think it should be generally used.

I'm not 'shifting the argument'. I'm pointing out to Cainkane1 his/her ignorance. I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[dudalb]

Let's not shift the argument here. None of that matters.

Suppose the woman is a slut. Suppose she is irresponsible. Suppose she wants to "use abortion as birth control" (just for the sake of argument —it doesn't matter that no one actually does this).

If she wants an abortion, she should be able to legally get a safe abortion. It's as simple as that. You don't even have to be a "fan" to accept that abortion is good and should be widely available in most circumstances.

A baby should not be the equivalent of a fine to be used for the purpose of punishing someone for being a slut*.

* And yes, I am using the word here to reflect the thinking behind much of the pro forced birth mindset and for effect. I am not using it because I think it should be generally used.

Abortion is not good but might be the best of a group of bad choches.
Harlan Ellison was strongly pro choice, but he also felt that abortion was a messy, disgusting business. His story "Croatan" is about his complex feelings on the topic.
Ellison siad with that story he managed to piss off both the Right To Lifers and the more militant pro Abortion supporters.

 

[Stacyhs]

Women's right issues aside...and I am not saying they are not important this is a huge step on the road to thocracy.
In the end, the whole "Life begins at conception" is based upon the soul entering the fetus ( I know the fetus does not exist at that point but I will just use the term for convience) at the moment of conception. That is a purely thelogical belief with no basis in science. Outlawing abortion is using Civil Law to enforce religious doctrine, and that to me is the ultimate act of tyranny.

I agree. It's an opinion based on religious belief and most certainly not on science. Oh, shock!

 

[dudalb]

I would say exactly what I think of Texas, but I would get a ban for TOS violation.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Not much legally he can do.

Funny that only one political party seems to have their hands tied when it comes to actually delivering on promises.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

1. NO ONE is a FAN of abortion. What do you think women go through emotionally who have to make this decision? Jesus Christ what a silly statement to make!

2. Great! So don't ever have an abortion if you're a woman. No one is going to force you to get one. But, damn, your assumption that "most women know how babies are made" means they didn't use some kind of protection is ignorant. NO birth control is 100% effective. Some women are allergic to birth control pills. I know one who had uncontrolled itching constantly that only stopped after she stopped taking her bc pill. IUD's can become dislodged and embedded in the uterus and actually have to be removed surgically, they can also slip partially out without knowing it becoming ineffective and can cause Pelvic Inflammatory Disease. Condoms can come off during intercourse or even have perforations allowing sperm to get through.

Not to mention the slut-shaming is irrelevant because the law in question doesn't distinguish pregnancies resulting from rape.

ETA: Never mind. I see the guy did at least carve out rape pregnancies from his screed. Doesn't make the sentiment any less vile IMO, but it does obviate my point above.