Ron DeSantis (R) - Country Hungry for New Blood

[slyjoe]

Not exactly, at least by my understanding there was no vaccine at the time, they were inoculated with actual smallpox, but in a controlled way that was less deadly on average than catching it wild.

https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-george-washington-revolutionary-war

It was nothing like a proper vaccine.

I think the vaccine had to wait for Jefferson - didn't he encourage it?

the funny thing about the unapproved vaccine angle is they want to be told it's safe from the people that are already telling them it's safe

Yea I'm sure we will see a sudden rush for vaccines once it is approved. That's an excuse not a reason.

 

[jadebox]

Yea I'm sure we will see a sudden rush for vaccines once it is approved. That's an excuse not a reason.

According to an article I read earlier today, most people (2/3) think the vaccines have already been approved. So, the number of people waiting for approval before getting vaccinated has to be rather small.

 

[Segnosaur]

Is Trump still residing in Florida? Would be hilarious if he got COVID again.

No, I think he has gone up to spend the summer at some property in New Jersey.

And while the case count in New Jersey is rising, the increase is very small, and it is nothing like the spike in cases you see in Florida. (Hmmmm... New Jersey has a Democrat for a gov., wonder if that might have something to do with it.)

See: The Guardian

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think the vaccine had to wait for Jefferson - didn't he encourage it?

"One of the first methods for controlling smallpox was variolation, a process named after the virus that causes smallpox (variola virus). During variolation, people who had never had smallpox were exposed to material from smallpox sores (pustules) by scratching the material into their arm or inhaling it through the nose. After variolation, people usually developed the symptoms associated with smallpox, such as fever and a rash. However, fewer people died from variolation than if they had acquired smallpox naturally.

The basis for vaccination began in 1796 when the English doctor Edward Jenner noticed that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox were protected from smallpox. Jenner also knew about variolation and guessed that exposure to cowpox could be used to protect against smallpox. To test his theory, Dr. Jenner took material from a cowpox sore on milkmaid Sarah Nelmes’ hand and inoculated it into the arm of James Phipps, the 9-year-old son of Jenner’s gardener. Months later, Jenner exposed Phipps several times to variola virus, but Phipps never developed smallpox. More experiments followed, and, in 1801, Jenner published his treatise “On the Origin of the Vaccine Inoculation.” In this work, he summarized his discoveries and expressed hope that “the annihilation of the smallpox, the most dreadful scourge of the human species, must be the final result of this practice.”"

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html

 

[slyjoe]

To poke a little further:

Jenner’s work reached the U.S. in part due to the efforts of a Harvard professor, Benjamin Waterhouse, who vaccinated his own family and exposed them to smallpox patients. But Waterhouse wanted to spread the word, so he wrote to an amateur scientist in Virginia, writes Steven Johnson for How We Get to Next. That scientist was Thomas Jefferson.

Interesting aside was Benjamin Franklin's take on the vaccine.

See https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...cted-early-smallpox-vaccine-trials-180954146/

 

[sackett]

Problem is the Covid does not know about state lines......

And that's why the situation in Florida is so pressing. If an entire state becomes a superspreader site, isn't federal action justified? Urgent action, as in a quarantine with closed borders and an air and sea blockade, mandatory masking, school shutdowns, and curfews.

DiSnottis and his pals may be betsy-bug crazy, but nobody's obliged to defer to them.

 

[Segnosaur]

And that's why the situation in Florida is so pressing. If an entire state becomes a superspreader site, isn't federal action justified? Urgent action, as in a quarantine with closed borders and an air and sea blockade, mandatory masking, school shutdowns, and curfews.

I think quarantining Florida (heck, most of the deep south states where vaccination rates are low) would be warranted.

But, would it be constitutional? There are probably various sections in the constitution/bill of rights that would limit the ability of the federal government (or various state governments) from closing interstate borders. And given the fact that the supreme court has already ruled in favor of disease on one case involving "Mah Freedum! vs. covid restrictions", I suspect that they would see any sort of "no Floridians allowed north of the Mason Dixon line" as unconstitutional.

ETA:
See: Wikipedia (freedom of movement)

 

[ponderingturtle]

To poke a little further:



Interesting aside was Benjamin Franklin's take on the vaccine.

See https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...cted-early-smallpox-vaccine-trials-180954146/

Franklin died before the use of Cowpox was discovered. He was talking about inoculation not vaccination.

 

[CORed]

And he's dumb as a ******* post.

Yes, which is apparently now a key qualification to be a Republican politician. Trump, DeSantis, Gaetz, MTG, Lauren Bobert, Mo Brooks. If you have more than half a brain, you have no future as a Republcan.

 

[sackett]

I think quarantining Florida (heck, most of the deep south states where vaccination rates are low) would be warranted.

But, would it be constitutional? There are probably various sections in the constitution/bill of rights that would limit the ability of the federal government (or various state governments) from closing interstate borders. And given the fact that the supreme court has already ruled in favor of disease on one case involving "Mah Freedum! vs. covid restrictions", I suspect that they would see any sort of "no Floridians allowed north of the Mason Dixon line" as unconstitutional.

ETA:
See: Wikipedia (freedom of movement)

The Executive has various emergency powers that might cover such drastic action. Ideally, Congress would enact legislation that would authorize temporary measures to meet a crisis of national import -- and Covid certainly qualifies as that.

If you can stop people from entering a forest fire, then surely you can keep them from leaving Florida.

If Biden was 25 years younger and a flintier sort of man, he might try it now. And perhaps succeed.

 

[Segnosaur]

I think quarantining Florida (heck, most of the deep south states where vaccination rates are low) would be warranted.

But, would it be constitutional?...And given the fact that the supreme court has already ruled in favor of disease on one case involving "Mah Freedum! vs. covid restrictions", I suspect that they would see any sort of "no Floridians allowed north of the Mason Dixon line" as unconstitutional.

The Executive has various emergency powers that might cover such drastic action.

Perhaps, but like I said, any sort of emergency power use that limits inter-state travel would probably be subject to judicial review (and would probably face an unfriendly pro-death supreme court).

Ideally, Congress would enact legislation that would authorize temporary measures to meet a crisis of national import -- and Covid certainly qualifies as that.

Of course, they would have to get it by the Senate. While there aren't quite as many lunatics in the senate as the house, I could see some difficulty convincing a significant amount of Republican senators to go along (to avoid the fillibuster).

If you can stop people from entering a forest fire, then surely you can keep them from leaving Florida.

I think that a sort of measure of "immediate danger" would probably be applicable... certain death entering a forest fire, while covid kills many but not all victims.

(Again, I want to stress that I would have no moral problem with a "no Florida travel" rule I think it would be a great thing. My concern is just whether it could be legally enforced.)

 

[Trebuchet]

New blood. Blood is what DeSantis has on his hands. He is killing people in his state.

 

[JoeMorgue]

LOL triggered libs. Show me in the Constitution where we're Governors aren't allowed to intentionally kill off their citizens. I demand a civil debate about that.

 

[plague311]

COVID isn't real, I can't even imagine why we're having this conversation. Just open everything up, get everyone to herd immunity (less than .03% of people die when they get this 'seasonal cold') and lets get back to work!

Florida has a great track record of leading the nation in the right direction. I can't imagine why every state shouldn't follow them now.

 

[JoeMorgue]

In defense waking up everyday and knowing your governor is literally trying to kill you does put the rest of the day in perspective. I'm not longer as angry when I get cut off in traffic.

 

[PhantomWolf]

LOL triggered libs. Show me in the Constitution where we're Governors aren't allowed to intentionally kill off their citizens. I demand a civil debate about that.

I'm going to suggest the 5th Amendment?

Nor shall any person... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

and the 14th...

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

ETA:

And Section 9 of Florida's Constitution.

SECTION 9. Due process.—No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law

Honestly, I'd love to see someone take De Santis to Court and argue that his banning of mask mandates and other virus-stopping methods are violations of those Constitutional clauses because it is literally a State mandated death sentance for some people.

 

[Belz...]

I'm going to suggest the 5th Amendment?



and the 14th...

There's only one amendment that counts, and that's the Holy Second.

 

[dudalb]

And that's why the situation in Florida is so pressing. If an entire state becomes a superspreader site, isn't federal action justified? Urgent action, as in a quarantine with closed borders and an air and sea blockade, mandatory masking, school shutdowns, and curfews.

DiSnottis and his pals may be betsy-bug crazy, but nobody's obliged to defer to them.

It would set a horrid precedent, however. Think of what a Trump could do under the excuse of "urgent action".

 

[dudalb]

He just escalated the war on masks threateing to stop the salaries of public officials who defy his ban on masks.
It is incredible..we have the governor of a major state who thinks defying science and modern medicine is the road to the White House. Scary thing he might be right.
he is also behaving like a petty tyrant, but that is standard for the GOP nowdays.

 

[Stacyhs]

He just escalated the war on masks threateing to stop the salaries of public officials who defy his ban on masks.
It is incredible..we have the governor of a major state who thinks defying science and modern medicine is the road to the White House. Scary thing he might be right.
he is also behaving like a petty tyrant, but that is standard for the GOP nowdays.

He's showing what a great authoritarian he will be for his fans!