[ED] Discussion: Trans Women Are not Women (Part 6)

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On the topic of how crimes get recorded... There's the travesty that is Christine Chandler. This is a person with some deep and serious mental health issues. This person committed incest with their female parent, who suffers from severe dementia, which makes this act rape. Regardless of how they identify, I strongly object to this being recorded as a crime committed by a "female".

Chris Chan has a history of aggressiveness and inappropriate behavior toward females, including lesbians, even prior to their transition. At present, the media coverage of this story all uses female pronouns, and does not address the sex of the perpetrator at all. If convicted, there's a high likelihood that activists will insist that Chris Chan be placed in a female prison.

In addition, there's been a fair bit of on-line outrage aimed, not at Chan's rape of their own mother, but at people who refer to them by male pronouns. Apparently 'misgendering' this male rapist is a worse social transgression that the actual rape.

The treatment of this situation is... interesting. It doesn't seem to be reported in mainstream news outlets. Yahoo News provides a fairly neutral report of the allegations and facts, with little commentary. , as does People.
 
d4m10n said:
Finally got around to reading the original book review. Not exactly obvious what Dr. Hall got wrong here.
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Not obvious to me, either. I do recall someone opining that it amounted to a “rant”. I guess I understand why they might say that, but my understanding was that it was sort of a preliminary review. She hadn’t done a full fledged deep dive into the references to verify everything, but taken at face value, she found it plausible and compelling. (I haven’t read it myself recently so I’m going from memory here).

Dr. Hall was a regular contributor to SBM and I’m disappointed they handled it the way they did. That they went on to post several entries’ worth of responses, even after removing her piece so readers were no longer able to see her original review, just strikes me as a bad faith move. I suppose it’s safe to assume Dr. Hall will no longer be contributing to Science Based Medicine, and IMO that’s a significant loss for them.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Interview from the Olympics, after the weightlifting competition, touches on Hubbard's participation. Very short, worth watching.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1422592460438519809
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Pure gold!

When silence can speak more than words.

If they were supportive, it would have cost them nothing to say so, and nobody would have been upset by that. Accordingly, it's highly likely they were scared to give their opinions, which is a sad indictment on society.
 
An article from the BBC covering the 'De-transition' movement.


Studies suggest that most people who transition to another gender do not have second thoughts. But after two trans men met and fell in love, their personal gender journeys took an unexpected turn, to a destination neither had foreseen.





"I always felt we have a very special history. We have special bodies, and a special connection based on the physical experience we had."




Ellie is 21 and Belgian. Her German partner, Nele, is 24. Both took testosterone to become more masculine, and they had their breasts removed in double mastectomy surgery. Now they have detransitioned, and live again as female - the gender they were assigned at birth.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-51806011
 
theprestige said:
It's kind of ironic that the US women's soccer team got beaten by a team that fielded a man.
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Except they didn't.

She represented Canada at the 2016 Olympics as her birth gender of female, and the fact she now identifies as male doesn't change the fact that "they" is a woman.

Samoa had a trans player in the men's soccer team, too, a while back - Jaiyah Saelua - who was born male, identifies as fa'fafine, and represented Samoa in the men's team while living as a woman.

Confused?

You won't be after watching next week's episode.
 
The Atheist said:
She represented Canada at the 2016 Olympics as her birth gender of female, and the fact she now identifies as male doesn't change the fact that "they" is a woman.
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I'd've thought she represented Canada at the 2016 Olympics as her birth sex of female, and now identifies as non-binary.
 
d4m10n said:
Finally got around to reading the original book review. Not exactly obvious what Dr. Hall got wrong here.
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Just perusing it this caught my eye:
Dr Hall said:
Those who transition rarely adopt the stereotypical habits of men (like buying a weight set)
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Buying a weight set is a stereotypical habit of men? Seriously?

And this is followed by the suggestion that transitioning is being used as a sort of genocide for lesbians. I have heard this suggested a number of times and it is usually based on things like something someone in some gender clinic allegedly said.

It seems improbable that there is a significant proportion of people who are prejudiced against lesbians but perfectly fine with trans men.

Without evidence other than anecdotes by those who have a pup to sell, this sounds suspiciously like a wedge strategy.
 
Robin said:
Buying a weight set is a stereotypical habit of men?
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I mean, yeah. Men are stereotypically more interested in building muscle mass, IMO. Dunno how much of this is the result of the way masculine archetypes are portrayed vs. how much women seem to actually care about it.
 
d4m10n said:
I mean, yeah. Men are stereotypically more interested in building muscle mass, IMO. Dunno how much of this is the result of the way masculine archetypes are portrayed vs. how much women seem to actually care about it.
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An inaccurate stereotype maybe. But what is the relevance that few of the teenage femaie to male transitioners are rarely interested in something that most males are rarely interested in?
 
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I wonder how many anti-trans crusaders have been emboldened to accost people in public restrooms like this:

In the Capitol basement, Lauren saw a man begin following Greyson on his way to the bathroom, with a phone in hand, recording and demanding, “What bathroom are you going to use, tranny?” She confronted him, took his phone, and deleted the photos while he protested. When security came, Lauren recalled, “the cops were like, ‘Sir, how many times have we had to tell you?’” After that, she and the other moms started cautioning people to make sure their kids locked the main bathroom door.
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https://newrepublic.com/article/163113/behind-gop-strategy-outlaw-trans-youth

One of the things Lauren learned from other moms of trans kids just coming out was that people could call Child Protective Services and accuse you of being an unfit parent simply because your kid was trans. “We have what we call a safe folder,” she told me, with “letters from therapists, doctors, friends, families.” Essentially, the folder was a compilation of character references in case of an emergency like the one that Mother’s Day. “When CPS shows up at your house because some random bigot decides to call, then you have this file.” In this case, the caller was not random. Her ex-husband was using Greyson’s being trans as a way to fight Lauren for custody. By that point, Greyson’s father had rejected Greyson’s identity. More than wanting Greyson, Lauren explained, his father wanted him to stop being Greyson.
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Seems that anti-trans reactionaries are more of a danger to children than the supposed transgender boogieman.
 
Robin said:
But what is the relevance that few of the teenage femaie to male transitioners are rarely interested in something that most males are rarely interested in?
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I think Hall assumes human males really *are* much more interested in developing typically masculine musculature than human females are, on average.
 
Robin said:
An inaccurate stereotype maybe.
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It's not inaccurate at all.

Men are far, far more likely to want a muscular physique than women. Almost all men would like to be at least somewhat muscular. Many men who don't pursue getting a muscular physique don't do so out of total indifference, but because they don't know how, think they can't, or think it's not worth the work. But almost no men would prefer to be skinny or fat than to be at least somewhat muscular. Not necessarily Arnold Schwarzenegger levels, but at least Brad Pitt with his shirt off muscular. If men could snap their fingers to obtain it (sadly, I cannot), you would see almost no non-muscular men.

In contrast, very few women want a muscular physique. In fact, it's a common (though misplaced) concern among women that weightlifting will give them a muscular physique that they don't want.
 
There's a difference between wanting muscles and wanting to do an activity that will give you muscles.

Both men and women want to look attractive. The fact that this means different things for a particular sex/gender doesn't mean that there's a tangible difference in how men and women behave. They're just forced to conform to different standards.
 
Whether or not the two genders/sexes/gender identities can "choose" to be different while maintaining equality is... an interesting one that I think influences this discussion more than we are admitting.

The problem is if some meaningful, statistically significant amount of one demographic is more likely to do something, some people will argue that is evidence that they are influenced by society and that they really don't want to do it.

And to be clear they might not be 100% wrong in any particular instance of that argument.
 
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