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Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

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shemp said:
See post 2325 above. You'll never get rid of the Electoral College because 13 of 50 states can block the necessary constitutional amendment. But the constitution doesn't tell states how to apportion their votes. That could be changed by law. You might have a better chance of getting states to change their law regarding electoral vote apportionment; however, allowing states to award votes in units of 0.1 votes might require an amendment.
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There is that option a number of states have pledged to vote for the winner of the popular vote. They need numbers that put them over the winning minimum for the strategy to work.

The thing is, with this new Trumpian effort to subvert the vote by having legislators change the outcomes their states voted for has pretty much ruined the idea, IMO.
 
How many states have laws like that pending or enacted?

I actually wonder if it will backfire--the SCOTUS decision that refused to block gerrymandering might have to be revisited if the results can affect a presidential election.
 
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newyorkguy said:
The political problem is, to change the system the smaller states -- many of which have Republican majorities -- would be asked to give up some of the power and influence they now have in presidential elections. How are you going to convince them to do that? Let's hear how the ISF pundits would pull that one off. ;)
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Wait for a Democrat to win the Electoral College while losing the popular vote. Trump was on Fox News in either 2008 or 2012 ranting about how the EC should be abolished when it briefly appeared that President Obama was going to win while being behind in the poplar vote.
 
gnome said:
How many states have laws like that pending or enacted?

I actually wonder if it will backfire--the SCOTUS decision that refused to block gerrymandering might have to be revisited if the results can affect a presidential election.
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How can gerrymandering impact the presidential election?
 
There is the National Popular Vote Interstate Contract, a thing which has at least some chance of happening.

As if this writing 19 states and the District of Columbia has singed an agreement that states, essentially that all their electoral votes will go to the winner of the popular vote.

That's enough to essentially nullify the Electoral College on a practical level, but it's getting there.

I mean it's all besides the point since we're pretty much guaranteed either a Constitutional Crisis or something close to it the second it actually happens but...
 
newyorkguy said:
But all of this ignores the reality that today -- not 200 years ago -- a state's electors are required to vote for whichever candidate wins the popular vote in that state. A minor problem is the occasional -- very occasional -- rogue elector who refuses to vote as instructed.
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Horsecrap. Only 17 states have a penalty of any kind for a faithless elector. And only 13 states don't still accept the vote of the rogue elector.

So every single American could vote for Mr. John Q. Smith, but every single Elector could cast their vote for Bozo the Clown, and only about a 30-50 of those 538 votes cast have a system in place to change them back to votes for John Q. Smith.

"LOL but it doesn't happen" isn't an argument. It's should possibility within the system.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Horsecrap. Only 17 states have a penalty of any kind for a faithless elector. And only 13 states don't still accept the vote of the rogue elector.

So every single American could vote for Mr. John Q. Smith, but every single Elector could cast their vote for Bozo the Clown, and only about a 30-50 of those 538 votes cast have a system in place to change them back to votes for John Q. Smith.

"LOL but it doesn't happen" isn't an argument. It's should possibility within the system.
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And the whole reason for the electoral college* was fear that the general population could be swayed by some completely unsuitable candidate winning by populism. Which is what Trump is, and the electoral college didn't prevent him. So it has no point at all.

*Instead of each states assigned votes just automatically applying, not instead of a popular vote different reasons for that
 
lobosrul5 said:
And the whole reason for the electoral college* was fear that the general population could be swayed by some completely unsuitable candidate winning by populism. Which is what Trump is, and the electoral college didn't prevent him. So it has no point at all.t
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To be fair, the EC has been changed since the start, in order to not ignore the vote. So faithless electors are less of a thing than originally envisioned. It's actually trying to be more democratic that caused this.
 
lobosrul5 said:
And the whole reason for the electoral college* was fear that the general population could be swayed by some completely unsuitable candidate winning by populism. Which is what Trump is, and the electoral college didn't prevent him. So it has no point at all.

*Instead of each states assigned votes just automatically applying, not instead of a popular vote different reasons for that
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In the beginning there was this idea that having Electors who had the most up to date information, so if on November 5th America elected John Q. Smith but between then and inauguration day John Q. Smith got kicked in the head by a mule, went crazy, and announced he was going to nominate his horse as Secretary of State and his horse's balls as Secretary of Treasury, it was probably a good idea to not force the Electors to put him into the President's seat.

At least some logic in that, even I'd argue even then in a pre-information age there were better failsafes that could have been put in place.

It's been inexcusable even within its own reasons since the Telegraph was invented "news" became this thing people could get.
 
Sorry I missed the insurrection here, I was busy Trying to tell people it was coming, a blind man could have saw it from a mile away.
Conspiracy theories too their natural evolution.
 
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How do people think the Republicans got all the state level power that lets them pass their "LOL let's close every voting station in a neighbor black neighborhood" and "You can only vote for 2 hours on Friday if the moon is full" nonsense?

Elections as a process happen on a state level. Republicans have a huge amount of state level power right now.
 
JoeMorgue said:
How do people think the Republicans got all the state level power that lets them pass their "LOL let's close every voting station in a neighbor black neighborhood" and "You can only vote for 2 hours on Friday if the moon is full" nonsense?

Elections as a process happen on a state level. Republicans have a huge amount of state level power right now.
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Single issue voters are a Major reason Republicans have so much power in the south, that and conspiracy theories.
 
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