Free Britney!

Sherkeu said:
If no one here has personal experience with the "revolving door" of mental illness where paranoid or bipolar delusions pay a big part, then you don't know that these persons can act totally or 'reasonably' normal for periods of time.....and then the rabbit hole opens up and sucks them down. Again, and again, and again..... a few weeks in hospital here, a few weeks there, 6 months intensive..... then try something new, maybe this 20th mix of meds will work? maybe off all meds? try everything....but it just never ends. We tried for 10 years. There is no cure, only coping and lots of support. At some point you give up the dream of some return to normalcy.

Xavier Amador has a great book called "I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help" about his experiences with this. Helped me a lot is dealing with a family member in the same situation (with anosognosia).
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No one with bipolar disorder needs a conservatorship, specifically, is what we're saying. They are supposed to be for actual incapacity, like dementia. I keep saying this. No one is saying people with bipolar don't need treatment or benefit from help.

You may think that this kind of arrangement is appropriate for bipolar, personally (I don't agree, of course). But legally, it should not meet the standards for such ironclad guardianship. Therefore, legal impropriety and state overreach are the concerns, not Britney's problems. It's all being investigated now, and the truth will likely come out, whatever it is - so I don't have much more opinion than that.
 
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Butter! said:
No one with bipolar disorder needs a conservatorship, specifically, is what we're saying. They are supposed to be for actual incapacity, like dementia. I keep saying this. No one is saying people with bipolar don't need treatment or benefit from help.

You may think that this kind of arrangement is appropriate for bipolar, personally (I don't agree, of course). But legally, it should not meet the standards for such ironclad guardianship. Therefore, legal impropriety and state overreach are the concerns, not Britney's problems. It's all being investigated now, and the truth will likely come out, whatever it is - so I don't have much more opinion than that.
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I actually do agree with this. Where I live, it is extremely difficult to get someone on conservatorship. My family member would benefit by it, but I doubt we could actually do it. That is because in most parts of the US, it's not illegal to be as incapacitated as you want to be- as long as you are not a danger to yourself or others. That is the hurdle, and it's a big one.

Britney's case is sad because I think the hurdle was lower due to her wealth and celebrity. She is an unfortunate target for people wanting to exploit her- friend, foe, and family included. If she was just some normal person living in a rural village somewhere, she'd probably be just fine on her own with community support.
 
Sherkeu said:
I actually do agree with this. Where I live, it is extremely difficult to get someone on conservatorship. My family member would benefit by it, but I doubt we could actually do it. That is because in most parts of the US, it's not illegal to be as incapacitated as you want to be- as long as you are not a danger to yourself or others. That is the hurdle, and it's a big one.

Britney's case is sad because I think the hurdle was lower due to her wealth and celebrity. She is an unfortunate target for people wanting to exploit her- friend, foe, and family included. If she was just some normal person living in a rural village somewhere, she'd probably be just fine on her own with community support.
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I agree with all this, and I think you make a great point about her celebrity being a complicating factor.
 
jollyroger85 said:
Ernie M said:
That (broken) arrangement & reasoning is in part how abuse, exploitation, and fraud, can continue in perpetuity.

Good luck trying to get out of an abusive conservatorship, guardianship, crooked power of attorney. 'Justice' is stacked against you.

Broken court systems, biased laws, corrupt individuals, abusive family, (and a long list of other professionals and people) make it easy for abusive, exploitative, and fraudulent conservatorships/guardianships/power of attorney, to happen in perpetuity.

Typically, a person gets out of a conservatorship or guardianship by dying.
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Though is this egregious case, it is being thrown into the public eye just what a POS the Father and the conservatorship is, and that will likely/hopefully prove it's undoing.
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An egregious case. Yes. But it's important to keep in mind that much of superstar Britney Spears's unjust circumstances share common horrors found in 'everyday' conservatorship and guardianship abuse cases.

#FreeBritney activism has been instrumental in bringing Britney's abusive conservatorship into the public eye. Leanne Simmons runs an activist website that includes an about page; frequently asked questions; events; timelines; and has copies of court documents.

Simmons runs freebritney.army and is just one of a growing number of people advocating for California courts to release pop star Britney Spears from her conservatorship, under the banner #FreeBritney. It's a fluid, grassroots movement in which members share and analyze court documents, help one another understand the ins and outs of guardianship law, organize in-person rallies around the world, and get the word out about Spears' story. [1]​

In addition to people who truly care about Britney's health and welfare, Britney's wealth may play a pivotal role in her freedom from her abusive conservatorship. Why? Britney can use a lot of money–which will likely cost millions of dollars–to investigate, prepare cases, go to court, and prosecute if appropriate.

Britney has/had to pay many people tremendous amounts of money to 'manage' her conservatorship and business ventures. The conservators can hire the best lawyers–using Britney's money–to defend themselves, while Britney is in the (abusive) conservatorship. So Britney has to pay the cost of the conservators legal counsel & costs, as well as her own legal counsel and costs.

Britney's will to speak out, #FreeBritney activism, making things public, support, and having the money to fight, may all play a part in the undoing of this abusive conservatorship.

I hope at some point Britney will make a chart to show how much it cost her to get out of her conservatorship. The public should realize the financial and emotional costs to Britney.

Free Britney
  • Hold abusers accountable
  • Expose the broken systems
  • Make the abusers' names and dirty deeds public
Remember there are other people who are or have been under abusive/exploitive/fraudulent conservatorships/guardianships/power-of-attorney.

Sources

[1] Limbong, Andrew. "They Were Laughed At For Their #FreeBritney Activism. Not Anymore." npr, 26 July 2021. Retrieved from https[colon]//www.npr[dot]org/2021/07/26/1018877604/free-britney-movement-activists
 
Ernie M said:
An egregious case. Yes. But it's important to keep in mind that much of superstar Britney Spears's unjust circumstances share common horrors found in 'everyday' conservatorship and guardianship abuse cases.

...

I hope at some point Britney will make a chart to show how much it cost her to get out of her conservatorship. The public should realize the financial and emotional costs to Britney.
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It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that.

At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship? I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...but I would like to see the opinions of the medical experts who have examined her. I have seen a lot of opinions expressed by internet "experts", no doubt.

Since she is against any more "stupid evaluations" (her words), these documents are very much of interest.
 
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I'd be against stupid evaluations too. I'd much rather get some non-stupid evaluations, from a mental health provider that I choose and that I trust.
 
Warp12 said:
Ernie M said:
An egregious case. Yes. But it's important to keep in mind that much of superstar Britney Spears's unjust circumstances share common horrors found in 'everyday' conservatorship and guardianship abuse cases.

...

I hope at some point Britney will make a chart to show how much it cost her to get out of her conservatorship. The public should realize the financial and emotional costs to Britney.
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It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that.

At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship? I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...but I would like to see the opinions of the medical experts who have examined her. I have seen a lot of opinions expressed by internet "experts", no doubt.

Since she is against any more "stupid evaluations" (her words), these documents are very much of interest.
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Re: chart making

My hope is that Britney would make a chart, or charts, to show how much it cost her to get out of her conservatorship (if it happens, which I believe is highly likely).

The purpose of the charts would be to show how much money was spent to get out of her abusive conservatorship. I'd like to see a complete financial accounting of all costs, including but not limited to legal fees and expenses for the conservators, legal fees and expenses for Britney (conservatee), court costs, forensic accounting, depositions, financial records/statements...all associated costs.

And, I'd like to see a wellness-type chart, that represents the psychological & emotional costs.

I would guess any detailed chart(s) would be public after final resolution of the abusive conservatorship?

I understand how you can say, "It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that." Because Britney's been posting things to that effect. But as a cautionary point, the chart(s) I'd hope to see likely won't be done for months, if they're made public at all.

Re: Doctors reports

It's critical to see medical reports, (at least for the attorneys, Britney, and the judge) such as doctors' reports, psychological type evaluations. It's important to know what the judge, and whoever did evaluations, said. Britney didn't appear in court the day her conservatorship was placed into effect. So the judge couldn't ask Britney questions, such as if she knew she'd be losing her freedom and financial control.

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) statute should keep Britney's medical information private and confidential (as well as it should), but...I'm hoping some or parts of files will be released, with comments by Britney. The reason is so the public can understand the processes, procedures, what was done for evaluation, why evaluations were done, who did the evaluations, and how that aggregate information led to a voluntary conservatorship.

There's potential issues about coercive mental health treatment.

I wonder, is there's an audio-with-video in which Britney agrees to the voluntary conservatorship, and says she understands the extent of her loss of liberty, freedom, and financial control.

Yes there might be signed documents by someone stating to that effect, but is there audio-with-video??? Video might help prevent instances if there is a question about altered, forged, concealed, or destroyed documents.

Re: Unwell

You said,
I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...
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But I could say Britney is emotional because she's been in an abusive conservatorship for 13 years, and didn't have the freedom she would've had without the conservatorship. She likely has a lot of pent up feelings and is acting out. Some people could consider her behavior questionable, but I don't see that as 'evidence' that Britney is "unwell."

I could say Britney's overjoyed that her conservatorship may end soon, and that people may be held accountable for the alleged abuses, and it is through Britney's pictures, videos, posts, etc. Cartwheels and photos showing a lot of skin might be the way Britney knows how to express happiness, joy, and having (some) control in her life.

Re: "stupid evaluations"

No. Britney did not say, "stupid evaluations." Close, but Britney used other descriptions. If you have a transcript that states, "stupid evaluations," please cite your source.

Evaluations led to the voluntary conservatorship. I infer Britney isn't happy about that.

In your post #446, you wrote that,
Since she is against any more "stupid evaluations" (her words), these documents are very much of interest.
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I agree, the medical documents (doctors reports) are crucial to understanding how the conservatorship started, and who was involved in making it. A judge apparently agreed with the documentation.

Britney said in transcript of the 23 June 2021 by Variety, that:

And it’s been 13 years. And it’s enough. It’s been a long time since I’ve owned my money. And it’s my wish and my dream for all of this to end without being tested. Again, it makes no sense whatsoever for the state of California to sit back and literally watch me with their own two eyes, make a living for so many people, and pay so many people, trucks and buses on the road with me and be told, I’m not good enough. But I’m great at what I do. And I allow these people to control what I do, ma’am. And it’s enough. It makes no sense at all.

Now, going forward, I’m not willing to meet or see anyone. I’ve met with enough people against my will. I’m done.
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The main reason why I’m here is because I want to end the conservatorship without having to be evaluated.
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Warp12 said:
.....
At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship? I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...but I would like to see the opinions of the medical experts who have examined her. I have seen a lot of opinions expressed by internet "experts", no doubt.
.....
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You don't seem to get that once the conservatorship has been established, its necessity becomes the presumptive position. The conservators don't have to keep justifying it, or look for alternative measures; the conservatee has to try to prove that it's no longer necessary, and as this case demonstrates, it's an uphill battle. It appears that at the beginning of the process Daddy signed a form that said Spears was suffering from dementia. That's clearly a lie. But it very likely played a part in establishing the permanent conservatorship.

Once again, it doesn't matter whether Spears is mentally ill, however defined. Most mental illness can be and is treated without making adults legal children forever. How many celebrities can you name who have been arrested for drugs or alcohol, been in and out of rehab, entered and ended bad marriages and relationships, lost money in risky investments, made dumb career choices and worse without having conservatorships imposed on them? Spears was her family's cash cow from her preteens, and they acted to protect themselves, not her.
 
Britney Spears’ Agent Called Her Conservatorship A “Violation Of Human Rights” And Said He’s Been “Threatened” Into Remaining Silent

Unfortunately the Instagram post itself is set to "private" so all I can do is link to a report about it.

Britney's agent, Cade Hudson, says “I've kept my mouth shut out of the fear of losing my job as her agent and losing the career I worked my ass off for 15 years to build, out of threats from the man we all know who, but I won't even dignify [by] mentioning his name. I’m officially done being quiet."
 
The New York Times published a notable article today, 29 July 2021

"Britney Law Army’s Mission Is Keeping a Movement in the Know"

Through a mix of information sharing and advocacy, a fan account on Twitter has become a resource for people following Britney Spears’s conservatorship case. [1]
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The power of activists on social media fan bases may play a role in freeing Britney from an abusive conservatorship.

Megan Radford, 34, described @BritneyLawArmy as “a really reliable source of information” about the court proceedings. “They explain court documents for people who aren’t lawyers,” said Ms. Radford, who helps manage the @FreeBritneyLA account and has organized some of the #FreeBritney rallies in Los Angeles from her home in Oklahoma City. [2]
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Twitter account for Britney Law Army is @BritneyLawArmy

Source

Safronova, Valeriya. "Britney Law Army’s Mission Is Keeping a Movement in the Know." The New York Times, 29 July 2021. Retrieved from https[colon]//www.nytimes[dot]com/2021/07/29/style/britney-spears-law-army-twitter.html
 
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Warp12 said:
It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that.

At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship? I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...but I would like to see the opinions of the medical experts who have examined her. I have seen a lot of opinions expressed by internet "experts", no doubt.

Since she is against any more "stupid evaluations" (her words), these documents are very much of interest.
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But unwell enough to deprive her of personal freedom, theres millions out there worse off than her who are in the same state, so no. Your regard for the value of personal freedom, good or bad, is nauseating
 
Britney Spears is going to be surrounded by hangers-on hoping to gain by the association even if she succeeds in dumping Daddy dearest. She'll continue to struggle with wanting to be loved for herself while mobbed by people who want to use her. It isn't just her bipolar disorder that could make this treacherous for her, but, IMO, general emotional insecurity.

There's a strong possibility that I have no idea what I'm talking about, since I am judging by such factors as her getting a huge hit with "Hit Me Baby One More Time" when she was 17 years old. I don't know exactly how much input she had in song selection so maybe I'm full of it, but I kind of thought of that song as a cry for help, quite a while before she had any public meltdown.

But again, what do I know. I just feel for her and wish her the best.
 
Minoosh said:
Britney Spears is going to be surrounded by hangers-on hoping to gain by the association even if she succeeds in dumping Daddy dearest. She'll continue to struggle with wanting to be loved for herself while mobbed by people who want to use her. It isn't just her bipolar disorder that could make this treacherous for her, but, IMO, general emotional insecurity.

There's a strong possibility that I have no idea what I'm talking about, since I am judging by such factors as her getting a huge hit with "Hit Me Baby One More Time" when she was 17 years old. I don't know exactly how much input she had in song selection so maybe I'm full of it, but I kind of thought of that song as a cry for help, quite a while before she had any public meltdown.

But again, what do I know. I just feel for her and wish her the best.
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The first step is getting daddy out of his current role and given a **** ton of legal scrunity followed by inevitable jail time. The conservatorship of the person needs to end. Period, it is and always a ******** attempt to exploit her.
 
Minoosh said:
Britney Spears is going to be surrounded by hangers-on hoping to gain by the association even if she succeeds in dumping Daddy dearest. She'll continue to struggle with wanting to be loved for herself while mobbed by people who want to use her. It isn't just her bipolar disorder that could make this treacherous for her, but, IMO, general emotional insecurity.
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Competent lawyers and managers should be able to protect her from them and even from herself, as they do for other celebrities. That's what she's never had with Daddy in charge.
 
Bob001 said:
Competent lawyers and managers should be able to protect her from them and even from herself, as they do for other celebrities. That's what she's never had with Daddy in charge.
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Plenty of other celebrities end up penniless. All the lawyers in the world can't protect her fortune from other people if she allows them into her life.

It's her right to squander her fortune, get serial married, loan money to worthless family members, and any other foolishness she wants to engage in. Financial ruin is absolutely a possibility if this conservatorship is removed, but that's really not the point.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Plenty of other celebrities end up penniless. All the lawyers in the world can't protect her fortune from other people if she allows them into her life.

It's her right to squander her fortune, get serial married, loan money to worthless family members, and any other foolishness she wants to engage in. Financial ruin is absolutely a possibility if this conservatorship is removed, but that's really not the point.
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Sure. My point simply was that ending the conservatorship doesn't have to mean Spears is ruined. She can hire responsible people and rely on their advice and guidance -- or not. The possibility of a bad outcome in no way justifies continuing the conservatorship.

And one often discussed alternative to conservatorships is "supported decision-making," where the subject makes decisions with input from friends and experts he chooses.
https://www.arcind.org/future-planning/supported-decision-making/
 
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