Cont: Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol - part 2

[gnome]

A little good news...

From: The Hill
The Department of Justice (DOJ) on Tuesday declined to back a Republican lawmaker's legal defense against a lawsuit accusing him of helping to foment the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.
...
DOJ lawyers said in a court filing that they were declining to certify Rep. Mo Brooks's (R-Ala.) claim that he was acting within the scope of his official duties as a member of Congress when he delivered a speech to Trump supporters...Had the DOJ agreed with Brooks and convinced a court that he was acting within his official duties, the Alabama Republican would have effectively been immune from the lawsuit.

There will be a lot more legal wrangling (and its likely the courts will simply rule it "free speech"), but at least he won't have the DOJ running interference for him. It also means that there is a better chance that Stubby McBonespurs also won't get the same sort of DOJ protection in any lawsuits against him.

I see a potential catch-22 there, for anyone wanting accountability. If someone's words are in their official capacity, they get immunity. If they were not, they get free speech protections as an individual speaker instead of as an agent of the government.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I wonder what kind of questions Jim Jordan had in mind to ask these police. I'm glad Pelosi put a stop to the spectacle but I can't help wondering if it would have made the McCarthy plan backfire bigly.

 

[Bob001]

I see a potential catch-22 there, for anyone wanting accountability. If someone's words are in their official capacity, they get immunity. If they were not, they get free speech protections as an individual speaker instead of as an agent of the government.

Not necessarily. Freedom of speech is not absolute. If he told a mob something like "march to the Capitol and burn it down!," he could be responsible for the consequences.

 

[Segnosaur]

I see a potential catch-22 there, for anyone wanting accountability. If someone's words are in their official capacity, they get immunity. If they were not, they get free speech protections as an individual speaker instead of as an agent of the government.

Yes, free speech offers a lot of protection... But, I think overall, it is not absolute... you can still be arrested for yelling 'movie' in a crowded firehouse. Its not easy to convince the courts when you've overstepped the bounds, but it is still possible.

On the other hand, if is speech WAS seen as being part of his official job, then he would be pretty untouchable.

And even if he is found innocent, the fact is he still has to mount a defense (with all the costs, and potential risks that entails). If the DOJ ruled that it was part of his job, then pretty much everything ends right away.

 

[Segnosaur]

I wonder what kind of questions Jim Jordan had in mind to ask these police. I'm glad Pelosi put a stop to the spectacle but I can't help wondering if it would have made the McCarthy plan backfire bigly.

I suspect any questions would either involve trying to divert attention away from the insurrection (probably onto the BLM protests), or absolving Trump of his culpability.

"Did you actually hear Trump give the order to hang mike pence?"

"Were there more or fewer protesters compared to BLM"?

"Did more people die on January 6 or during the Benghazi attacks?"

"Would you have been able to mount a defense of the capitol if the commie socialists had their way and they defunded the police?"

"Why do you hate america?"

 

[smartcooky]

I wonder what kind of questions Jim Jordan had in mind to ask these police. I'm glad Pelosi put a stop to the spectacle but I can't help wondering if it would have made the McCarthy plan backfire bigly.

You should have realized by now that Gym Jordan doesn't ask genuine questions of witnesses at hearings. All he does is grandstand, and asks loaded questions and then gives the witnesses no time to answer so he can grandstand some more. Everything about Gym Jordan is about Gym Jordan.

 

[Aridas]

Yes, free speech offers a lot of protection... But, I think overall, it is not absolute... you can still be arrested for yelling 'movie' in a crowded firehouse.

...Which movie? Santa Claus Conquers the Martians?

 

[smartcooky]

Yes, free speech offers a lot of protection... But, I think overall, it is not absolute... you can still be arrested for yelling 'movie' in a crowded firehouse. Its not easy to convince the courts when you've overstepped the bounds, but it is still possible.

I don't have a transcript of what Brooks said in his speech, but do recall some of what both he and Ghouliani said. I think any half-decent prosecutor could make a case that they had used "Fighting Words" which is an exception doctrine to 1A.

In Terminiello v. City of Chicago (1949), SCOTUS ruled that "words which produce a clear and present danger are unprotected (and are considering fighting words), but words which invite dispute and causes unrest are protected (and are not considered fighting words)".

In Feiner v. People of State of New York, 30 U.S. 315 (1951), SCOTUS held that "akin to the fighting words doctrine, an incitement to riot which creates a clear and present danger is also not protected by the First Amendment"

 

[Andy_Ross]

Capitol Police officer Michael Fanone shared with CNN a deranged voice mail that he received while testifying yesterday.

"You’re a punk faggot... you’re a lying ****! ... Too bad they didn’t beat the **** out of you more.... You’re a piece of ******"
It rants on for a considerable time.

Video in link

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1420211594794049536

On the same link is a vid of Tucker Carlson was just openly mocking Fanone's PTSD from being beaten to near-death.

Demented!

 

[jimbob]

Capitol Police officer Michael Fanone shared with CNN a deranged voice mail that he received while testifying yesterday.

"You’re a punk faggot... you’re a lying ****! ... Too bad they didn’t beat the **** out of you more.... You’re a piece of ******"
It rants on for a considerable time.

Video in link

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1420211594794049536

On the same link is a vid of Tucker Carlson was just openly mocking Fanone's PTSD from being beaten to near-death.

Demented!

Ah, the classic.

"pity you weren't beaten to death for saying that you were beaten"

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I know it's early still, but I hope that one of the things that this commission digs into is who in leadership was responsible for the lack of police preparation that day.

That's one topic that the commission is uniquely positioned to deal with. The feds are taking care of identifying and locking up individual rioters that engaged in criminal acts, but they aren't really the right people to be looking into the leadership of the Capitol police to see why they were asleep at the wheel.

Congress has power to compel testimony, especially in cases where criminal conduct is not a concern. There needs to be real questioning about why the very plain danger of right wing violence was not treated seriously by leadership in the Capitol police.

The dems are opening strongly with stories of personal suffering and heroism from members of the Capitol police, which is appropriate. But it's important to remember that some members of the Capitol police, especially in leadership, did not do their duty that day and enabled this attack.

The failure of the police, generally speaking, to treat right wing violence as a serious threat and to do their duty to enforce the law against fascist street violence is a nationwide problem. The specific failure of the leaders of the Capitol police to have their forces appropriately armed and prepared to deal with the open calls for right wing violence to stop the vote counting is a pivotal failure that allowed for this attack to be so successful.

Heads must be mounted on stakes to send a clear message, and not just the heads of the members of the mobs that are facing criminal charges.

 

[Vixen]

10 years would probably be a decent offer. He's facing about 60 years.

This is the guy in the fur hat who beat down the doors where Babbitt was killed. DOJ is throwing the book at him.
His outburst may be over the rather extreme charges. There is a charge of assaulting a police officer with a deadly or dangerous weapon. It was reported he said he can prove that is not true. I don't know what weapon the prosecution has in mind. The assault appears to mostly just bumping into an officer and the only weapon I can possibly see is the helmet. I doubt those charges will result in conviction.

He is also charged under 18 U.S.C. § 1361. Destruction of government property over $1000. That is the law where President Trump issued an Executive Order after the BLM protests directing the DOJ to not accept plea deals and to always pursue the maximum penalty of 10 years. The Order still gives DOJ some leeway and it doesn't really carry any weight, but it still puts him in a bit of a sticky wicket.

It has been reported that after his outburst the prosecutor informed the court that no plea deal had been offered but they could initiate that process. During the riot a number of people committed felonies and a number of people died. Some have called for charges of felony murder. In most cases I don't think that applies.

But in this case, there is a real possibility of a conviction of felony murder. I think that might have to go to DC law instead of Federal law. A Federal conviction could lead to DC charges.

I suspect his offer of "drop all charges" might well be countered with "life in prison". This probably will not go the way he expects. I don't think he has realized the severity of his crimes or the amount of trouble that he is in.

Zach Alam: a name to watch.

 

[Vixen]

The QAnon shaman is now seeking a plea deal since he was found to have multiple mental health issues. Some are claimed to be a result of his incarceration in solitary confinement.

He ain't no schizophrenic*. Personality disorder, more likely.

*Having said that, schizophrenics can be prone to dressing in <ahem> an eccentric manner.

The man, Jacob Chansley, was diagnosed with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression and anxiety by the federal Bureau of Prisons, defense lawyer Albert Watkins said in an interview with the publication.

 

[quadraginta]

"They crazy ones don't count" is going to be the GOP's go to "No True Scotsman" to get out of dealing with the toxicity in their own ranks.

That may be so, but it gets a bit tired when many if not most of their elected officials, and nearly all of their electorate are those same fringe crazy people.

 

[dudalb]

I wonder if Tucker will drop all pretense and be openly racist and openly advocate violence against minorities in order to keep them in line. I could see it happening since he is in a situation where he needs to get more and more outrageous all the time to keep his viewers.

 

[smartcooky]

I wonder if Tucker will drop all pretense and be openly racist and openly advocate violence against minorities in order to keep them in line. I could see it happening since he is in a situation where he needs to get more and more outrageous all the time to keep his viewers.

The White Power Hour becomes the White Nationalist Power Hour?

Unfortunately, I can see that happening. Carlson is already an open racist and promoter of the "White Replacement" conspiracy theory, so which wouldn't he up the ante and condone violence?

 

[ZiprHead]

Capitol Police officer Michael Fanone shared with CNN a deranged voice mail that he received while testifying yesterday.

"You’re a punk faggot... you’re a lying ****! ... Too bad they didn’t beat the **** out of you more.... You’re a piece of ******"
It rants on for a considerable time.

Video in link

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1420211594794049536

On the same link is a vid of Tucker Carlson was just openly mocking Fanone's PTSD from being beaten to near-death.

Demented!

Ah, yes. Telephone balls. Internet balls ugly cousin.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I know it's early still, but I hope that one of the things that this commission digs into is who in leadership was responsible for the lack of police preparation that day. ...

The Dump-GOP legislators clearly sat around in a meeting to come up with this talking points memo they then sent around for ad nauseum repetition.

Here's this one: Nancy Pelosi and the BLM movement are to blame because they defunded the police.

And their cult followers will buy it, coming to a FB news stream or Twitter feed near you.

Here's a fact check on Capitol Police funding straight from the Libertarian Cato Institute on Jan 8, 2021

The Capitol Police certainly has enough funding to be prepared. The force has 2,300 officers and a $516 million budget to defend two square miles.

The chart shows that outlays for the Capitol Police have soared over the past two decades. In actual or nominal dollars, spending increased from $115 million in fiscal 2000 to an estimated $516 million in fiscal 2021. That equals an annual average growth rate of 7.4 percent, much faster than the 2.1 percent average annual inflation over the period.

The Capitol Police budget is more than the police budgets of Atlanta and Detroit. A watchdog group examined the agency’s activities in posts here and here.

Someone needs to shove that in the face of anyone buying what Jordan is selling.

Re the police, they earned that money on the 6th!

I agree though someone at the top was responsible for dismissing the white protestors because they are alright guys. I think the police chief already resigned didn't he?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Some levity to boost your mood. How one woman used the dating app bumble to trick CHUDs into confessing their Jan6 crimes.

‘Comically Minimal Ego-Stroking’: Inside The Bumble Takedown Of A Violent Capitol Rioter
Andrew Taake was arrested for pepper-spraying and attacking police officers with a whip at the U.S. Capitol. Here’s how a Bumble dating app user reeled him in.

“I basically just asked, ‘Wow, crazy, tell me more’ on repeat until they gave me enough,” she said. “One of my friends was like, ’You basically got all these confessions just being, like, ‘Haha! Then what?’”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/capitol-attack-bumble-takedown-jan-6-andrew-taake_n_6101b17ce4b00fa7af7ea007?36

o7 thank you for your service

 

[smartcooky]

Some levity to boost your mood. How one woman used the dating app bumble to trick CHUDs into confessing their Jan6 crimes.

‘Comically Minimal Ego-Stroking’: Inside The Bumble Takedown Of A Violent Capitol Rioter
Andrew Taake was arrested for pepper-spraying and attacking police officers with a whip at the U.S. Capitol. Here’s how a Bumble dating app user reeled him in.




https://www.huffpost.com/entry/capitol-attack-bumble-takedown-jan-6-andrew-taake_n_6101b17ce4b00fa7af7ea007?36

o7 thank you for your service

That is brilliant!

"Claire" you are a star girl....