The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-Opened

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I struggle to understand why people are so dead set against the reinvestigation. Do people think the lives of >852 people don't matter? Passenger lives matter! Do you think the families of the victims should be left without compensation for the sudden unexpected death of their loved ones, who were in no way at fault for their fate? Don't you think any public inquiry into such an accident should be transparent and open? So that anyone who was involved in the accident should be allowed to be heard as a witness and not ignored/suppressed?



Your comment, "I have no problem waiting for a report that will in all likelihood tell us the same things we already know." sounds sadly cynical and with the jaundiced view that we can expect no more from our governments, yet when the Russians or the Chinese do it, it's because they control the media and censor / rewrite stuff to patronise their own people. Somehow, you set the state above the people but fail to explain why you believe this is the correct position in an advanced western democracy.



I get that the apathetic majority couldn't care less about what happened and whether the bolts fell off, or not. However, that shouldn't mean the apathetic should slap down a much needed re-investigation just because 'What's it got to do with me? It's all fine with me. [Even though I know little about it.]'
This competes for some of the most sanctimonious horse **** I've had the misfortune of being witness to.

Get off it.

"Passenger lives matter!"...?

I'll give you marks for boldness on that one, I suppose.
 
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If I were to come to your country as a foreigner and sneak out your country's top secret defence plans and strategies, you would surely call it 'espionage'.

Does this have anything, anything at all, to do with the sinking of MS
Estonia?
 
I struggle to understand why people are so dead set against the reinvestigation. Do people think the lives of >852 people don't matter? Passenger lives matter! Do you think the families of the victims should be left without compensation for the sudden unexpected death of their loved ones, who were in no way at fault for their fate? Don't you think any public inquiry into such an accident should be transparent and open? So that anyone who was involved in the accident should be allowed to be heard as a witness and not ignored/suppressed?

Your comment, "I have no problem waiting for a report that will in all likelihood tell us the same things we already know." sounds sadly cynical and with the jaundiced view that we can expect no more from our governments, yet when the Russians or the Chinese do it, it's because they control the media and censor / rewrite stuff to patronise their own people. Somehow, you set the state above the people but fail to explain why you believe this is the correct position in an advanced western democracy.

I get that the apathetic majority couldn't care less about what happened and whether the bolts fell off, or not. However, that shouldn't mean the apathetic should slap down a much needed re-investigation just because 'What's it got to do with me? It's all fine with me. [Even though I know little about it.]'

Only responding because you quoted me. I am not against further investigation. It makes absolutely no difference to me. It just seems rather pointless and a waste of money based on the "reasons' speculated in this thread. I am here because I am rather fascinated by the convoluted stories that are presented as rationale for the need for further investigation. In spite of your continued aversion to the word "conspiracy", all the speculation here boils down to the suggestion of a conspiracy to suppress information discovered in the original investigation. In fact the original investigation provides adequate valid reason for the sinking. Additional investigation is not going to change that.
 
Does this have anything, anything at all, to do with the sinking of MS
Estonia?

Margus Kurm former state prosecutor for Estonia and leading expert:

One of Estonia's greatest experts on Estonia is Margus Kurm , who chaired the Estonian Estonia Research Commission in 2005–2009. Kurm is also a former Estonian Prosecutor General, in addition to whom he has assisted the relatives of Estonian victims in lawsuits related to Estonia.

Kurm has always been very skeptical about Estonia's official explanation of the sinking, ie that the ship's bow visor opened in a severe storm. He has previously emphasized in interviews that, according to the sailor who was saved from Estonia, the visor was closed until the end.

Kurm now tells Iltalehti that he is not at all surprised by the hole in the Estonian side highlighted by the Swedish documentary.

<snip>



- I was sure of the hole already in 2008, at the latest after the two scientific consortia set up by Sweden had published their research data, says Kurm.

According to him, it cannot be anything other than a hole made by a submarine.

- The rupture is below the ship's waterline, so it can only be a collision. At least I can't say that anything else could have collided with the ship other than a submarine, because there can hardly be any other traffic below the water's surface. Another ship is out of the question, and there is arguably no other shipping in the area.

Wreck damage expert Linus Andersson also says in the Dplay document that he considers the hole to be collision damage. However, the document does not address the cause of the rupture.

<snip>

- The Swedes said that the wreck had been filmed only once, and in the end it turned out that the original films filmed had disappeared. How credible is that? I tried to get to know the movies myself, but to no avail.

Kurm asks to bear in mind that as early as 1994, Sweden was a powerful maritime state with the most up-to-date facilities and equipment for submarine qualifications: in addition to submarines and divers, among other things, remotely operated robots.

- Think about it now: more than 850 people are lying on the seabed, and Sweden is not ready to use all available means to resolve the case.

Kurm says he considers it certain or fairly certain that some secret material was transported in Estonia, but he does not want to guess what it was all about.

As early as 2006, the Estonian Parliament acknowledged that Red Army military equipment had been transported from Estonia to Tallinn at least twice before the accident. However, there is no confirmed information on similar transports on the night of the accident.

According to Kurm, it is even impossible to say whether the transportation of secret material would have been the reason why Estonia sank.

- As I said, I think it is most likely that Estonia did hit a Swedish submarine, but it is impossible to say whether it was an accident. The sinking was due to this collision.
Ilta-lehti

I am not sure why you believe Kurm should be disregarded.
 
Only responding because you quoted me. I am not against further investigation. It makes absolutely no difference to me. It just seems rather pointless and a waste of money based on the "reasons' speculated in this thread. I am here because I am rather fascinated by the convoluted stories that are presented as rationale for the need for further investigation. In spite of your continued aversion to the word "conspiracy", all the speculation here boils down to the suggestion of a conspiracy to suppress information discovered in the original investigation. In fact the original investigation provides adequate valid reason for the sinking. Additional investigation is not going to change that.

Maybe the Swedish-Estonian and Finnish governments should have deferred to the superior knowledge of keyboard cynics who think it a waste of time to investigate further, as opposed to experts and investigative journalists who do not.

There seems to be a view that by labelling someone with a derogatory label,
that cancels them out, when really it is just the logical fallacy, of arguing by the employment of flippancy and ridicule, rather than genuine debate. Not to mention the idea of calling someone names to cancel them out, which seems rather distasteful to me.
 
If you watch this video - it has an 'age warning' but contains nothing alarming - you'll see that naval operators have already been down there and cut away two square sections on the body of the ship, plus the rails have been cut away. Whilst the German film crew's incursions were reported in the news, anything done by the military/government would not have been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nncXBlfMqi4&t=610s


Well, that video is over an hour long. And my skim of it appears to show only unmanned ROVs going down to the wreck. Would you be able to supply me with the timestamp on that video where we see humans diving down to the wreck?
 
Well, that video is over an hour long. And my skim of it appears to show only unmanned ROVs going down to the wreck. Would you be able to supply me with the timestamp on that video where we see humans diving down to the wreck?

The Swedish divers would have gone down well before the final report by the JAIC was published (between 1994 and 1887). IN addition, a Norwegian company sent divers down plus there were also divers from Amsterdam on another occasion.

The no. 1 deck was in fact inspected by divers (part FR8.9 and fig. FR8.27). Deck no. 1 was inspected by divers of the Swedish Maritime Administration to establish the condition of the ship for possible salvage. It seems the divers made two holes in the port side of the 'Estonia' at about frs. 68 and 110 and entered the third and sixth cabin compartments (from forward). The diver was then on top of the sauna compartment and could easily have descended to inspect the sauna compartment.
Note August 2000 - according to the German report in June 2000 one diver actually went down and inspected the sauna for 1 hour 6 minutes on 3 December 1994. This inspection was deleted from the dive log.

A diving survey of the wreck was carried out December 3 and 4, 1994 by the Norwegian company Rockwater A/S for a cost exceeding US$ 1 million. The Swedish maritime authority paid for the survey to establish whether dead bodies and/or the whole wreck could be salvaged. The Commission was invited to inspect the wreck for damages that caused the accident. Stenström was in charge. It seems however that the Commission's survey was done only to confirm its cause of accident

Swedish media has reported 2000 that five Swedish divers visited the ship earlier - probably already 2-9 October 1994. What these divers did is not known. <snip>
6. In August 2000 private divers filmed the forward collision bulkead starboard side. They found a big opening - hole - in the bulkead three metres below the focsle deck - se picture right, which has never been reported by the Commission. This opening could not have been caused by falling off of the visor. What caused it?


The Commission met at Stockholm, December 15, 1994. The Commission then confirmed in point 3 of the Press Release (5) that the strength of the locking devices for the bow visor in combination with the sea load on the visor in the prevailing wave condition and headway of the ship is the main cause of the accident. Point 5 of the Press Release is quoted in its entirety here:

5. The diving investigation carried out on the wreck has revealed that the ramp was locked in closed position prior to the accident. After loss of the visor the ramp has been significantly more open than the present position on the wreck, at least during some phase of the development of the accident.

How the Commission could have concluded after the diving inspection that the ramp was locked in closed position before the accident is not known.
Heiwaco

The divers and ROV filmed many many hours of video - literally days' worth - but only a short, limited video was released to the public, and not showing the damaged side. As you know, the military and its government agencies, are not prone to uploading stuff onto youtube.


In FR8.5.1 it is said that no external damage other than that in the visor and forward ramp area was observed on the wreck. But according to FR8.4 divers did not inspect the whole ship and ROV inspection was only done of certain areas, so the statement is not proven. Dr. Witte on pages 66-67 in (12) suggests that after having observed all the video films that
'You can clearly see the starboard side of deck 0 is above the mud so that you should be able to observe a hole. When I watched the video film and when the ROV, the Remote Operated Vehicle with the camera, approached the area where the supposed hole was, the picture disappeared 1.23. Then the picture continued at another location. On the video film the time is shown and other data, i.a. the depth, and it is easy to see that the video has been interrupted at the first location and restarted at a second location'.
Witte adds that the German police from the copy of the video could not say whether the copy was 'edited' or the recording was simply stopped.
ibid
 
He is just one person giving his opinion, as are you.


Just because Mr. Bjorkman offers an opinion does not exclude it from scrutiny: what I have done is drawn your attention to the lack of any structured, evidence-based reasoning.


So you are saying the Swedish-Estonian-Finnish governments are 'conspiracy theorists' for reinvestigating the matter? As I said, the Swedish government confirmed in the Rikstag - albeit TEN YEARS LATER - it did indeed convey ex-SOVIET armaments ON AN ESTONIAN PASSENGER FERRY. That is no 'theory' that is a fact.


I can't find an English-language source: can you provide a link please?



Like yourself, I am perfectly able to assess the value of any one person's opinion.

With respect, that's not how your posts come across at all.



I have to say that whilst being hugely resistant to Anders Bjorkmann, nonetheless, having looked into the matter further from all angles, I found myself nodding my head with most of what he has to say, as a naval/shipping expert.

Quod erat demonstrandum. But happy to be pointed to where, in his website, he provides the level of detail required to support his supposition and inferences.



It doesn't necessarily mean I agree with him (the Swedish navy removed the bow visor...hmmmmmmmm...really...?). I still maintain an objective position.


Okay.


It's no good people saying 'Sweden never smuggled out a foreign power's armaments on an Estonian ferry' (joint owned by the Swedish government and a private Estonian firm) when the fact records that it did, as minuted in the Swedish version of Hansards.


Link?


The shipbuilder and designer, Meyer-Werft also stand by their insistence that there was no design fault with the bow visor or its bolts.


Of course, from a liability persepctive, they have to say that but in any event the apparent paucity of evidence would leave that as their obvious route. This is why hard, reliable facts rather than Mr. Bjorkman's averrments are so essential.

A professor of maritime physics (the Norwegian, Jørgen Amdahl) and the former state prosecutor for Estonia, are not people idly discussing 'ideas' such as 'do aliens exist and have thy ever visited earth', they are talking concrete facts, as determined by hard tangible evidence.


I've fairly confident nobody said that they had.



So what was the problem in bringing the bow visor bolts up to the surface if they are at the heart of the fault?
I will leave that to those more versed in deep diving to reply to.
 
Just because Mr. Bjorkman offers an opinion does not exclude it from scrutiny: what I have done is drawn your attention to the lack of any structured, evidence-based reasoning.





I can't find an English-language source: can you provide a link please?





With respect, that's not how your posts come across at all.





Quod erat demonstrandum. But happy to be pointed to where, in his website, he provides the level of detail required to support his supposition and inferences.






Okay.





Link?





Of course, from a liability persepctive, they have to say that but in any event the apparent paucity of evidence would leave that as their obvious route. This is why hard, reliable facts rather than Mr. Bjorkman's averrments are so essential.




I've fairly confident nobody said that they had.




I will leave that to those more versed in deep diving to reply to.



Herewith, English-language link you requested:

Report from the Ministry of Defense
The inquiry into the transport of defense equipment on M / S Estonia
Diary number: Memorandum 2004: 06
Published January 21, 2005 · Updated 02 April 2015

Download:
Inquiry into the transport of defense equipment on M / S Estonia (pdf 117 kB)
By decision of 3 December 2004, the Government instructed the President of the Court of Appeal Johan Hirschfeldt to clarify whether the Armed Forces or the Swedish Defense Materiel Administration transported defense materiel on board M / S Estonia in September 1994. If information emerged that such transports had taken place, . According to the assignment, consultations were held with the relevant authorities, including the Swedish Armed Forces and the Swedish Defense Materiel Administration. The assignment was to be reported no later than January 21, 2005. The Court of Appeal assessor Lars Dahlström has served as secretary of the inquiry. The Inquiry has adopted the name Inquiry into the transport of defense materiel on M / S Estonia (Fö 2004: 06).
https://www.regeringen.se/rapporter/2005/01/promemoria-200406/


So, you see, it is an historical fact, recorded by the Swedish government and as rubber-stamped by Johan Hirschfeldt, in the Svea Court of Appeal.

Published fredag 21 januari 2005 kl 16.57
An investigation confirmed Friday that the Swedish military had used the Estonia passenger ferry to transport military technology, but not on the night it sank on September 28, 1994, killing 852 people.
The report, requested by Prime Minister Göran Persson outlined the military’s use of the ferry, which made daily runs from Tallinn, Estonia to Stockholm.
According to the report, the two military shipments made in September contained non-explosive electronic equipment used for military purposes but ”without any connection to weapon systems.”
Johan Hirschfeldt, president of the Svea Court of Appeals, prepared the report. He declined to elaborate on the exact nature of the equipment shipped on Estonia, calling the information classified. He also did not say how the Swedish military came into possession of the Russian equipment, saying it was outside the scope of his investigation.
https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/544415

It is entirely reasonable to refer to the trafficking of another power's state secrets, 'espionage'.

We might never have known about it had it not been for a sharp-eyed whistleblower customs officer, Lennart Henriksson, who came forward.

New circumstances related to the Estonia ferry became public on Nov. 25 when a retired customs official told the Swedish television SVT's "Uppdrag Granskning" program that the ferry might have been used for transferring military electronic equipment from Estonia to Sweden.

The retired official, Lennart Henriksson, said that in autumn 1994, two weeks before the ferry disaster, he received an order from his superiors not to inspect one vehicle on board the ferry coming from Tallinn to Stockholm. The official had a look at the car and saw devices resembling military electronic equipment of Russian design.

Henriksson told the SVT that the second order of the same kind came on Sept. 20, 1994, eight days before the tragedy.

Swedish military and customs officials confirmed that certain equipment had been purchased from Russian troops in Estonia and brought into Sweden via the Estonia ferry in 1994.

Swedish Prime Minister Goran Persson stated that the new evidence came to the current government as a complete surprise, and he immediately ordered an investigation.

Estonian military experts told the Postimees daily that Russian troops, shortly before leaving the country, were willing to earn money by selling military equipment, weapons and ammunition to everyone who had the cash.

The last Russian army units left Estonia at the end of August 1994.
https://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/11564/

Lennart Henriksson said this happened on the 14th and 20 Sept 1994. He was away on leave as of the 28 Sept, the date of the accident. However, from the two previous occasions, we can assume perhaps it was a weekly cargo. Hirschfield would only confirm the two for which he could not contradict Henriksson. He refused to give any details of these shipments. However, even on the night, it matters little whether Russian military ware was on the ship or not, as that doesn’t negate an attack of sabotage by criminal parties or counter-espionage. Unless, of course, anyone is claiming the cargo itself was a cause for an explosion, or one of the crew tried to open the pilot’s door, or the car ramp, to get it off the ferry, having being tipped off the Swedish police were waiting at Stockholm to intercept it. Johan Hirschfeldt stood up in the Swedish rikstag in 2005 and admitted that former-soviet secrets had been carried on the m/s Estonia, contemporaneously, so is a matter of fact, not ‘theory’.

It does not necessarily even mean the hole in the hull of the ship was caused by an explosion or military equipment on board. It seems more probably it was a submarine, possibly one of Sweden's own, or a NATO one, as NATO was exercising in the region on that date and one of its submarines did limp home, damaged, (USS-type, I believe) to Scotland (not that there is any connection but to help you understand it is not at all improbable).

Sara Hedrenius, who was aged twenty years old at the time witnessed seeing military trucks, together with a group of men dressed in military gear, entering the ship at the last minute, on 28 September 1994, before it set off. Hedrenius doesn't strike one as an unreliable witness. Solid citizen.
 
There's your problem.

Oh dear. Anders Bjorkman, aka Heiwa. Who among other things claims that nuclear weapons don't really work and that the moon landings must have been faked.

But no, no conspiracy mongering here. Nope.

Up next: Jack White's photo analysis of the Estonia wreckage!
 
It does not necessarily even mean the hole in the hull of the ship was caused by an explosion or military equipment on board. It seems more probably it was a submarine, possibly one of Sweden's own, or a NATO one, as NATO was exercising in the region on that date and one of its submarines did limp home, damaged, (USS-type, I believe) to Scotland (not that there is any connection but to help you understand it is not at all improbable).

Ok, so you seem to be asserting the damage was likely caused by a collision with a Swedish/NATO/USS-type submarine. Are you claiming the collision was intentional? If yes, why would an allied sub ram the ferry? If no, why does all the guff about military equipment matter?
 
Oh dear. Anders Bjorkman, aka Heiwa. Who among other things claims that nuclear weapons don't really work and that the moon landings must have been faked.

But no, no conspiracy mongering here. Nope.

Up next: Jack White's photo analysis of the Estonia wreckage!

It is not him that has re-opened the case, it is the Swedish-Estonian-Finnish governments, of which the former two are funding it.

I haven't seen Björkman's reasonings re nuclear weapons and moon landings so can't comment on them. Has it occurred to you that some people just have more enquiring minds than others? Were it not for the sceptics, we'd still all believe the world was flat, that there were just four elements making up all matter and that the sky was a dome covering the world. Madman or someone interested enough to understand how atom bombs or rockets tot he moon work? Who knows? <shrug>
 
Ok, so you seem to be asserting the damage was likely caused by a collision with a Swedish/NATO/USS-type submarine. Are you claiming the collision was intentional? If yes, why would an allied sub ram the ferry? If no, why does all the guff about military equipment matter?

Isn't it standard NATO policy that 900 lives are an acceptable price to pay for the destruction of some equipment belonging to the bad guys?

Looking for logic in the shotgun approach to a search for conspiracy is going to make you crazy.
 
Ok, so you seem to be asserting the damage was likely caused by a collision with a Swedish/NATO/USS-type submarine. Are you claiming the collision was intentional? If yes, why would an allied sub ram the ferry? If no, why does all the guff about military equipment matter?

My default position tends to be 'cock up' rather than anything deliberate. If the vessel was struck by a submarine, then obviously it involves the military, thus it is likely to have been an accident, such as a Swedish submarine escorting the military equipment. The fact they have been extremely secretive about the whole thing, seems to suggest this, especially their wanting to cover the whole thing in concrete, like some kind of mafia concealment. It is little wonder the relatives of the dead are angry at this idea and that the government has been less than candid. OTOH, if it was sabotage, I feel sure they would have been more transparent about it. Remember, this relates to the end of the cold war with the Soviet Union. It definitely involves espionage and counter espionage.

Had the M/S Estonia sank like the Herald of Free Enterprise - ignoring that it would have capsized and floated belly up - why would they leave the 'confirmed culprits' of the accident on the sea bed. Surely one would have brought up the bow visor bolts, seeing as they are to blame.

The JAIC has orally stated that the reason for throwing the bolt back into the water was that the helicopter was full and that the bolt was too heavy - its weight was 30 kilograms! However the JAIC brought up eleven other parts of the ship (as per FR8.4), none of which was thrown into the water and, including e.g. the bell, which was much heavier (70 kilograms) than the bolt.

The side locks were not recovered from the wreck. It is said that the divers estimated the play in the lock to ten millimetres. The visor lugs are said to have been torn off from the visor in the downwards and aft directions.
Heiwaco


Notandum the term 'aft' means 'towards the stern'.

I quote this because of the sheer amount of intricate detail.

It is also worth remembering that MI6 and KSI were helping Estonia rebuild its intelligence services at the time. The Swedish government at the time, headed by Carl Bildt had strong links to the CIA, who would of course be very interested in this military material.

The other strange thing is the disappearance of nine members of the Estonian crew, who were together in a life boat and rescued by M/S Mariella of the Viking Line. It reported 40 survivors rescued, yet the commander eventually only got a medal for saving less than that. The nine names that appeared on the Mariella survivors list, together with date of birth, written down at the time, and using a nickname for one of the twins, instead of her official name, indicates whoever was writing this information own was either genuinely recording the survivors using the information they supplied to him or her, or somehow someone somewhere dictated this list and these people, including Captain Piht, were not rescued after all.

Around about the same time, two empty planes arrived at Arlanda Airport in Stockholm, one with a receipt for passengers to Amsterdam, the others to Maine, USA. Some believe these planes carried the 'disappeared' nine crew, who were all Estonian. There was actually an Interpol Warrant out for Avo Piht. However, the Captain in charge that night was actually Captain Andresson. So where was he when the May Day was sent? That was sent by second mate Anders Tammes.

If it was an accident, why the lack of investigation and 'armchair calculations'?

So, hopefully, now that that Gorbochov era has passed and a new glasnost in place, the predominantly Swedish and Estonian families and friends, and survivors, together with the other thirteen nationalities, will find out the truth in detail and be entitled to proper compensation. If it was an accident, bring up the bow visor bolts and the ramp door.
 
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I wonder how many submarine collisions involving civilian deaths have been covered up over the years.

I wonder if it would even be possible to cover up a submarine arriving home with collision damage, fresh from maneuvers near a ferry that just sank. Seems like there would be at least some loose lips about the sunk ship. If Vixen actually knew which NATO sub it was that suffered damage during the exercises in question, we could look up the public record of the inquiry into how the damage occurred, how it was fixed, and what was done to mitigate the risk of similar damage in the future.
 
I wonder how many submarine collisions involving civilian deaths have been covered up over the years.

I wonder if it would even be possible to cover up a submarine arriving home with collision damage, fresh from maneuvers near a ferry that just sank. Seems like there would be at least some loose lips about the sunk ship. If Vixen actually knew which NATO sub it was that suffered damage during the exercises in question, we could look up the public record of the inquiry into how the damage occurred, how it was fixed, and what was done to mitigate the risk of similar damage in the future.

I did see the name of the submarine that limped in damage to Scotland but I shan't mention it as I don't see it has anything to do with the M/S Estonia, other than sheer speculation.

As for NATO. It was in the region 28 Sept - 7 October 1994. It must have had M/S Estonia on their radar. Why didn't they come to help the stricken ship?


Under NATO's Partnership for Peace the maritime forces
of ten NATO nations will join four Co-operation Partner
countries in Exercise COOPERATIVE VENTURE 94 from 28
September to 7 October 1994. The 10-day maritime
exercise is designed to familiarize maritime forces of
NATO and Co-operation Partners with each other and to
enhance their capability to work together in future
peace-keeping operations. This exercise will train
participating maritime elements in command and control,
tactics and basic maritime procedures. Planning has
also covered in detail environmental and safety issues.

NATO nations participating are Belgium, Canada, Denmark,
Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain,
United Kingdom and United States. Partner nations
participating are Lithuania, Poland, Russia and Sweden.
Many other Allies and Partners will send observers to
the exercise. More than 15 ships will conduct peace-
keeping, humanitarian and search and rescue operations,
together with a number of maritime aircraft, in the
Skagerrak area of the North Sea and the Norwegian Sea.

NATO bulletin

Whilst a UK naval vessel such as a submarine colliding with, say, a fishing vessel, as happened with HM Valiant, there would be an enquiry in parliament, with briefings open to the public. If it was USS, Russian or other, who knows what the rules of transparency are?


Bear in mind, the UK signed the treaty to keep the site a protected area, even though it is nowhere near Baltic waters.
 
I haven't seen Björkman's reasonings re nuclear weapons and moon landings so can't comment on them.

I have, but I won't comment either to keep the thread on-topic.

Has it occurred to you that some people just have more enquiring minds than others?

On the two subjects mentioned above, he's not just "enquiring." He's flat-out, embarrassingly, unequivocally wrong. If I'm recalling this correctly, he bet a million euros (in all seriousness) that no one could prove him wrong. Which meant he simply ignored the proof and continued blustering. You probably want to rethink any parts of your argument that come only from him.
 
It is not him that has re-opened the case, it is the Swedish-Estonian-Finnish governments, of which the former two are funding it.

I haven't seen Björkman's reasonings re nuclear weapons and moon landings so can't comment on them. Has it occurred to you that some people just have more enquiring minds than others?

Anders Bjorkman does not have an inqusitive mind. He has ignorant opinions stubbornly held.

Were it not for the sceptics, we'd still all believe the world was flat, that there were just four elements making up all matter and that the sky was a dome covering the world. Madman or someone interested enough to understand how atom bombs or rockets tot he moon work? Who knows? <shrug>

And there are flat earthers today who like to position themselves as "inquisitive skeptics", when they are in fact no such thing. Bjorkman is far more akin to these. He's not competent nor even rational enough to make significant contributions in any discipline, including ones he supposedly has training and background in.

JayUtah is right: You can safely ignore anything that comes only from him. Which means you can safely ignore anything at all that comes from him, since, if it had merit, you would find it better elsewhere.
 
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