Free Britney!
- Thread starter Bob001
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Belz...
Fiend God
Hopefully at least she'll be rich. Easier to vanish from the public eye when you have lots of dough.
She knows an evaluation is what put her into her current situation. She doesn't see it as a neutral process. The other side is why should she have to prove that
the conservatorship should end, rather than the other side having to prove that it should continue? This should have had an expiration date when it was first imposed.
I note again that her formal education ended when she was a young teen. Maybe what she really needed long ago was a tutor and some homework.
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jollyroger85
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if she kiboshes the conservatorship there's also the noteriety she'll have from being a posterchild of the subject whenever Conservatorship abuse enters the public eye. It's too egregious a case not to have that happen.
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
Again, I do not think she is the picture of mental health. (I don't think very many celebrities are, but child stars like Britney often end up extra unstable.) I even think she could benefit from guidance. I don't think her particular family is a good entity to provide such guidance, to put it mildly. And I also don't think that crazy people should involuntarily lose their autonomy, unless they're homicidal or headed in that direction.
I object to the state interfering with people's independence to this degree. Being crazy and squandering one's fortune is legal, even if it's ill-advised, so courts should stay the hell out of it. Yes, there are some special cases where I reluctantly agree that conservatorships can be good things (as I mentioned earlier, I'll cautiously offer that I think Amanda Bynes may constitute one such example). But these should be under constant review, and weird, shady, abusive family **** should NEVER be enabled by the arrangements in the way that it clearly has been with Spears.
People seem to think that the central question here is, "Is Britney Spears sane?" I don't think that's the question at all. I barely even think it's relevant. The question is, "Should the state really be able to do this to someone lucid, whether they struggle with mental illness or not?" Britney is not demented, obviously - that is just absurd. So something stinks with this conservatorship, and possibly the whole concept of conservatorships by extension (as other examples of abuses have shown).
That is the point. I don't see Britney pulling it all the way together in this lifetime, no matter what the judges decide with regard to her fate. She never really had a chance. I'd like to be wrong, of course. But she's had a pretty messed-up road for quite a long time, and as others here have pointed out, she never really had "normal" experiences at any point. This debate isn't just about her, though. She is a face for it - an extreme example, and therefore, a good place to start.
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jollyroger85
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A lawyer attached to the FreeBritney movement said what she needs to do is go to the Appeals Court with a Writ of Hapeus Corpus
jollyroger85
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If you google how they are SUPPOSED to work, they are supposed to be:
Temporary
Subject to regular review and reporting to the Court
The last resort after every other lesser restrictive measure has been ruled out.
Her initial Hearing was 10 minutes, no way that happened.
Yeah if she had been in Conservatorship for... a month we would be having a radically different conversation.
Britney been running on that "Temporary Emergency Use Only: Limit Speed to 55 mph: Do not use in Adverse Weather" donut spare tire for her entire adult life and we're supposed to think there's any legit reason for it.
Britney been running on that "Temporary Emergency Use Only: Limit Speed to 55 mph: Do not use in Adverse Weather" donut spare tire for her entire adult life and we're supposed to think there's any legit reason for it.
gnome
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Or a breakdown of trust in professional evaluation. It may be that she is mistaken to generalize her experience with evaluations so far, but it doesn't take delusion to have an illogical fear reinforced by past history.
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I have no problem with her generalizing.
The problem is, any rational person would likely be demanding an evaluation, if they understood that was probably key in their freedom. They might insist upon a certain group of "evaluators", or demand that a certain group be excluded.
But to say, to paraphrase, "I want out immediately, but not if I have to get another "stupid" evaluation"? That just sounds pretty ridiculous.
"A rational person would demand more from the system that has already failed her for decades" is an odd definition of "rational."
She has every right to assume anymore evaluations would be the same circus as the ones that been keeping her in Conservatorship all these years.
She has every right to assume anymore evaluations would be the same circus as the ones that been keeping her in Conservatorship all these years.
Matthew Best
Penultimate Amazing
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRSQhX1gmLq/
Just wanted to post this, as my friend Steve is very excited about it, since he made the outfit she's wearing.
Just wanted to post this, as my friend Steve is very excited about it, since he made the outfit she's wearing.
jollyroger85
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You just don't seem capable of empathy. That mechanism was used against her, it's only natural she wouldn't trust it. Her appearances in court in recent days make enough of a case for her being able to handle her own affairs. This travesty has gone on long enough.
tyr_13
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Exactly this.
Conservatorships are supposed to be only for the most extreme situations, and yet 'hasn't behaved in our definition of optimally for a woman' consistently gets cited as evidence of mental impairment for her. Even doing things that are actually stupid or harmful to yourself long term aren't generally enough to imply even mild mental illness (with certain bounds), but things that aren't even that, things that are only outside the bounds of what some old guys think is 'optimal', are cited here. Even on top of that, her economic gains have been given such primacy over other forms of human fulfillment that it boggles the mind. Such choices almost always involve values and taste judgments that should be left to the individual. 'You could have made more money doing this other thing, so not wanting to must mean you're not being rational' is an invalid argument even for rich people.
All the other things cited I've seen could very well be, and I'd say almost certainly are, the impacts of the exact kind of control and failure to parent that the conservatorship maintains. You can't fail to teach a child then cite the impacts of those failures as a reason to keep control of that child! ******* DUH! Paris Hilton had to show Britney, in her twenties, how to Google information. That isn't because Britney is so mentally impaired, obviously, but because she'd been so controlled and sheltered she didn't ever not only have to, but know to. Once exposed to it, she was perfectly able to.
This is such a good vehicle for showing the flaws in this system in general.
Yes and no.
Her show is mostly a dance show/spectacle. Not many people can sing well while dancing. (Though it’s amazing what Pink can do while singing.). Consequently, she sings to pre-recorded vocal track. She does actually sing, and she does have a mic, but for the most part the audience doesn’t hear it, and she’s not really singing, or even trying to sing “well.”
Does that mean she can’t sing? No. It is her voice on the tape, but it’s studio recorded when not jumping around, and a perfect take is selected, eqed, etc. (Contrary to popular myth, while auto tune can clean up a performance by a good singer, it can’t make a bad singer good.)
One problem with Britney specifically, is that she doesn’t sing with her natural voice, which is (or at least was) actually pretty good. Instead she uses a higher, more nasal voice on record as that’s apparently what her producers thought worked for that style of music. So in essence she would not only have to sing while dancing, but also use a voice other than her natural one.
I’ve seen early videos of her singing that were pretty good. But after years of recording and performing with the studio voice, I don’t know if she can still do it.
Under her current circumstances, she may not have the power to choose or reject a particular shrink, and she doesn't want to go to one that is selected and paid for by her father. And I note again that she has had limited formal education; she is saying "stupid" when some of us might say "counterproductive" or "prejudicial to my argument" or something else.
I think the biggest issue with her dad’s salary is not the amount, which might not be out of line for a business manager for her estate, but rather his dependency on it.
Britney, as far as I can see, is Jamie’s primary source of income. This ends if she hires someone else to manage her assets. So Britney being declared competent enough to end the conservatorship would be devastating to his well-being. Which is why realatives should not be salaried conservators of large estates.
Professional firms can manage multiple estates and are less dependent on a single client.
Jamie is a dependent.
Britney, as far as I can see, is Jamie’s primary source of income. This ends if she hires someone else to manage her assets. So Britney being declared competent enough to end the conservatorship would be devastating to his well-being. Which is why realatives should not be salaried conservators of large estates.
Professional firms can manage multiple estates and are less dependent on a single client.
Jamie is a dependent.
That's actually pretty common. I can't find a link, but I can recall reading that performers like Madonna (and probably Britney) have engineers blending the live and studio sounds pretty much second by second during shows.
She has been her family's primary source of income since she was a young teenager, and she has been raised and trained to that end. I continue to believe that somebody should have called CPS for her when she was still a minor.
According to Forbes Britney Spears has a net worth of about 60 million.
James Spears could live like a king for the rest of his life already. What's the plan to work Britney to death just for the hell of it?
(And yes I know the answer is greed for the sake of greed.)
James Spears could live like a king for the rest of his life already. What's the plan to work Britney to death just for the hell of it?
(And yes I know the answer is greed for the sake of greed.)