Today's Mass Shooting

[Thermal]

Celebrating the right to bear arms.




(Aside: "bear arms" does not actually mean "carry weapons", but that's just some semantic quibbling, right?)

Yeah, it means the God given right to big muscular hairy biceps, right? Sun's out, guns out

 

[TomB]

Danville, Illinois





Omaha, Nebraska

1 killed, 4 wounded outside the club at 3:18 a.m.



Thermal, California

4 wounded. No suspect information available.

From the Danville one:

The victims are:

A 27-year-old Danville man who suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was listed in serious condition;
A 35-year-old Chicago man with multiple gunshot wounds who was listed in serious condition;
A 27-year-old Danville man who police said suffered non-life-threatening gunshot wounds to both legs;
A 28-year-old Danville man who suffered a non-life-threatening gunshot wound to a leg.

I guess shooting someone in the leg is possible. Who knew?

 

[Meadmaker]

A closer look at the shootings or the attendant statistics shows that they are in fact disproportionately black people. How can facts be problematic in the sense you're suggesting. Certainly, we know that a real life racist, white supremacist would highlight these facts, but they're facts nonetheless.

The part that you snipped out was the part that explained why I find them problematic. It doesn't seem there's a concern for the victims, only that the perpetrators are black.

No straw man at all. Many are arguing that MAGA, etc. are responsible.

I must have missed it. I think it's a straw man. I don't think many are arguing that at all. The only role MAGA, etc. plays is by demanding liberal gun laws that allow people to carry guns with little or no restriction. I haven't seen any claims that white people are shooting black people.

They're also arguing that black people are being hunted (not by other black people, but by white racist cops),

When they say that, they usually include video clips as an explanation.

The problem of racist cops is, I believe, a real problem, but it shouldn't be conflated with the subject of this thread.

and that there is open season on black people (again, not by black people, but by white racists) and that black people are living in constant fear (nothing to do with other black people, but...wait for it...racist white people). This is the fantasy narrative and it's being presented all the time, and everywhere. Did you miss out in BLM, or the Super Bowl, or a recent Nike ad?

Did you see in the other thread where I mentioned Michelle Obama's comments that black people still "live in fear" when walking their dogs or going grocery shopping? She even said that she fears for her children every time they get in their car. Care to hazard a guess on who or what might be the source of her alleged fears?

Why don't you tell us? But, tell us what she said, not what you think she must have meant.


As for BLM, that was mostly about racist cops, and there's video to go along with it. The Super Bowl? Yeah, I must have missed it, because I don't know any connection. The Nike ad? I must have missed it. When I googled, all that came up was a recent "For once, don't do it" ad, which surely has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

So maybe I did indeed miss things. That's what happens when you get news from the internet. Maybe I'm in some sort of news bubble where I miss the important stuff, but I don't think so. I think this is more straw.


I think the truth is that people are making a big fuss about violence by white cops against black people, and there's a reason for that, but when it comes to what Michelle Obama or anyone else has to say about crime in general and the way it affect ths black community, I don't think anyone is blaming white people for the shootings.

I think the actual racism associated with all of the sort of crime that Bogative is calling attention to is that an awful lot of people, on left and right, don't really seem to care about the victims.

 

[William Parcher]

Most or many victims are gang members which puts them in the criminal box. Not entirely innocent per se.

 

[bluesjnr]

...snip...

I think the actual racism associated with all of the sort of crime that Bogative is calling attention to is that an awful lot of people, on left and right, don't really seem to care about the victims.

Wouldn't concentrating on the perpetrators help reduce the victims?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Why don't you tell us? But, tell us what she said, not what you think she must have meant.

You can see a video of the conversation
here.

I think the truth is that people are making a big fuss about violence by white cops against black people, and there's a reason for that...

There is? What is the reason for the big fuss about in particular about violence by white cops against black people? Do you think it's reasonable for people like Michelle Obama to "live in fear"?

I think the actual racism associated with all of the sort of crime that Bogative is calling attention to is that an awful lot of people, on left and right, don't really seem to care about the victims.

You're right that they don't care (or maybe they sort of care in an abstract, and not thinking about it too often way). People around the globe are dying in tragic situations all the time and it hardly even occurs to most of us to stop and think about it. But deaths in the US can be politically expedient. And the current cultural zeitgeist is all about the supposedly heavy death toll on the black community as a result of racially motivated incidents.

As to what BLM is about - it's basically about alleged racism against black people, both my individuals and structurally. It is decidedly not about black on black crime. Even the name of the organization give as hint - "Black lives matter". As if there is a large group of individuals who aren't on board because they think black lives, specifically, do not matter. Wikipedia describes the group as "protesting against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people" and the BLM Global Network says "We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise".

This is what everyone wants to talk about. You seem to have missed it but companies such as Nike and many, many others are going to great lengths to show their support and join in the protest against racially motivated incidents against blacks (and, presumably, other people of color).

Who would you imagine would be the perpetrators in all of these alleged attacks on people of color?

 

[Bogative]

Most or many victims are gang members which puts them in the criminal box. Not entirely innocent per se.

Evidence?

 

[William Parcher]

Evidence?

Only the circumstances of the shootings.

 

[Bogative]

Toledo, Ohio


1 killed, 12 injured when multiple people started firing weapons after a brawl during a block party.


Ages involved –

1x 51-year-old
4x 19-year-old
1x 18-year-old
3x 17-year-old (1 killed)
2x 16-year-old
1x 15-year-old
1x 11-year-old

We should be angry," Kral said. "We need to come together as a community. We've seen violence like this in this country all year long, and now it's hit home. Someone there knows who was shooting these guns."

Kral said many people who attended the block party are not being cooperative with the investigation. It's unclear what started the brawl and there are no suspects.

FTP, ACAB, **** 12

But Derek Chauvin!

 

[Warp12]

From the Danville one:


I guess shooting someone in the leg is possible. Who knew?

What is your point, exactly?

 

[Thermal]

Evidence?

I've clicked on quite a few stories, and the majority have no indication of the race of the shooter, victims, or any believed gang activity.

Bogative could just as well be demonstrating that the overwhelming majority of mass shooters are not politically motivated by white supremacists, but are garden variety street punks using guns to solve petty disputes, and the ready availability of said hardware is the problem that should be commanding our attention if mass shootings are our concern.

 

[Meadmaker]

Bogative could just as well be demonstrating that the overwhelming majority of mass shooters are not politically motivated by white supremacists,

But that's the straw man. No one is saying they are.

but are garden variety street punks using guns to solve petty disputes,

I think that is, indeed, his point, although I think his references to "they don't look like MAGA" and such indicates that he would say "garden variety black street punks".

and the ready availability of said hardware is the problem that should be commanding our attention if mass shootings are our concern.

Personally, I think that that is indeed part of the problem and what his examples are telling us, but he disavowed that idea earlier.

 

[Meadmaker]

You can see a video of the conversation
here.

So, I watched, and what she said was totally unrelated to anythin in this thread.

I stand by my straw man charactization. No one is saying MAGA is responsible for street crime. No one is saying that white supremacists are the major cause of violent deaths in the black community.

Some people are saying that black people are afraid of cops, and that they should be. They are afraid of hassles, false arrests, beatings, and, in extreme cases, murder, because all of those things really do happen, but pointing out the high murder rate in black communities doesn't address any of that.

Moreover, no one is drawing that connection. People are saying that there are right wing white terrorists are plotting attacks, because there are are, but no one is saying that the existence of police brutality or of white supremacist actions produce more death or violence in the black community than the sort of black on black crime that has been highlighted in this thread.

When someone sees a Nike ad and responds by calling attention to gunfights in Chicago involving black people, it seems like someone is missing the point, and that is the most charitable interpretation of their statements.

 

[Thermal]

But that's the straw man. No one is saying they are.

I think on many threads, the idea of a politically motivated white guy being the greatest threat of violence in the States is well established. I was getting sick of hearing about how the nearly impotent Proud Boys were the Fourth Reich on the hoof. Whatever Bogative's motivation, the point is solid: it's average Joe Blow with a readily available gat that is the country's greatest threat, body bag wise, and not Trump supporters. But attention sure seems focused on the latter as if it was Thanos-like in inevitability.

I think that is, indeed, his point, although I think his references to "they don't look like MAGA" and such indicates that he would say "garden variety black street punks".

Not sure I see the hilited word in many of the articles. Or even a tenth of them.

Personally, I think that that is indeed part of the problem and what his examples are telling us, but he disavowed that idea earlier.

I must have missed said disavowing. Still, I remain far more concerned about a random Joe with a gun with low value for human life, than a political shooting that is mostly not happening but reads sexier.

 

[Bogative]

Rantoul, Illinois

5 wounded in a drive-by shooting.

Even after a 7-year-old girl and a 15-year-old girl were shot

Three other adult men, ages 41, 25 and 25, received grazing wounds and refused to be taken to the hospital. Schmidt said the three men were unwilling to give police any information.

Dallas, Texas

5 wounded during a park party with illegal fireworks. Over 100 spent casings found.



Dallas, Texas (same link as above)

3 killed, 2 wounded at a different park party.

 

[smartcooky]

I think that is one of his points. Not picking a side really, but this thread is titled "Today's Mass Shooting". I don't think his point is that black people are to blame for most of them, just that the white shooters get most of the major press.

No, that is exactly his point. He nailed his colours to the mast a long time ago.

 

[William Parcher]

CNN: At least 150 people fatally shot in more than 400 shootings over the holiday weekend.

 

[Warp12]

No, that is exactly his point. He nailed his colours to the mast a long time ago.

What do the stats say? That is the real question, right? I know that the murder rate is an estimated 6x greater per capita, for blacks, according to crime stats. Are there stats for mass shootings by race? I don't recall seeing those stats.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Some people are saying that black people are afraid of cops, and that they should be. They are afraid of hassles, false arrests, beatings, and, in extreme cases, murder, because all of those things really do happen, but pointing out the high murder rate in black communities doesn't address any of that.

Would it be reasonable for white people to also be afraid to walk their dogs and go grocery shopping? After all, the above happens to white people as well.

Moreover, no one is drawing that connection. People are saying that there are right wing white terrorists are plotting attacks, because there are are, but no one is saying that the existence of police brutality or of white supremacist actions produce more death or violence in the black community than the sort of black on black crime that has been highlighted in this thread.

It's a common trope nowadays for BLM and the like to speak of black people "living in fear", but it seems that they're very selective about what that fear should be directed towards; and it doesn't align very well with your statement in bold. How often do you hear the Obamas, BLM, or the like saying they're living in fear because of the epidemic of black on black crime. Or as Bogative has alluded to, how often do you hear Obama say "if I had a son, he'd look like that" of one of the countless victims of black on black crime?

I posted a quote earlier from the BLM website saying that they "are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise." Do you think they'd be interested in hearing your statement in bold? Not only would there be no interest, but you'd be told to "shut up, racist!"

 

[Meadmaker]

What do the stats say? That is the real question, right? I know that the murder rate is an estimated 6x greater per capita, for blacks, according to crime stats. Are there stats for mass shootings by race? I don't recall seeing those stats.

No, that is not the real question.


When you read that four people were shot, the real question should not be "what color were the victims", nor "what color was the shooter". It is sad that the question is even deemed relevant.

Catch the criminal, regardless of color. Devote full resources to identifying and capturing the criminal, regardless of what color the victims are. Treat people as individuals, instead of as representatives of some sort of "race", which I put in quote marks because it's an ill defined term of no particular significance.