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The behaviour of UK police officers.

Channel 4 News


In 2015 the Met Police chose not to open a full criminal investigation into an incident involving Epstein, Maxwell and Prince Andrew in 2001.
Serious questions raised about why Met Police chose not to investigate alleged offences. Police said today they will ‘review the information’ reported by this programme.

https://www.channel4.com/news/revea...ted-in-multiple-uk-abuse-claims-over-a-decade
 
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Carrot Flower King said:
Monk found guilty of the manslaughter of Dalian Atkinson: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...manslaughter-of-ex-footballer-dalian-atkinson

Jury still considering verdict on Bettley-Smith.
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The first policeman to be convicted in thirty-five years for murdering a member of public. One wonders whether had Dalian Atkinson not been such a high profile person (I often saw him play when I frequented Villa Park in the mid-90's) this would even have gone this far. I can well imagine how frightening someone in a psychotic rage and exhibiting super strength might be but to keep on tasering and kicking in the head until the person is definitely dead is something a trained police officer should never do. In the case of the London Bridge 'narwhal' incident when a police officer had to fire - what was it? 20 shots? - into the terrorist's body, that was quite different. The man had already killed two people and attacked others, had two knives and a possible suicide vest, was still moving as though to reach for a cord or weapon, so that did fall under 'reasonable force'.
 
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The manslaughter conviction was more likely, because the police officer is allowed to use a degree of force and there was no evidence of an intention to kill. I think that there is relief that he was convicted at all. It has been a long time coming and plenty of other police officers have killed and been excused, such as those who arrested and killed Sheku Bayoh.
 
Vixen said:
The first policeman to be convicted in thirty-five years for murdering a member of public. One wonders whether had Dalian Atkinson not been such a high profile person (I often saw him play when I frequented Villa Park in the mid-90's) this would even have gone this far. I can well imagine how frightening someone in a psychotic rage and exhibiting super strength might be but to keep on tasering and kicking in the head until the person is definitely dead is something a trained police officer should never do. In the case of the London Bridge 'narwhal' incident when a police officer had to fire - what was it? 20 shots? - into the terrorist's body, that was quite different. The man had already killed two people and attacked others, had two knives and a possible suicide vest, was still moving as though to reach for a cord or weapon, so that did fall under 'reasonable force'.
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I'm not sure what to make of this.
The first policeman to be convicted in thirty-five years for murdering a member of public.
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manslaughter

One wonders whether had Dalian Atkinson not been such a high profile person (I often saw him play when I frequented Villa Park in the mid-90's) this would even have gone this far.
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fair enough

I can well imagine how frightening someone in a psychotic rage and exhibiting super strength might be but to keep on tasering and kicking in the head until the person is definitely dead is something a trained police officer should never do.
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The first part, we only have the word of a convicted killer.

In the case of the London Bridge 'narwhal' incident when a police officer had to fire - what was it? 20 shots? - into the terrorist's body, that was quite different. The man had already killed two people and attacked others, had two knives and a possible suicide vest, was still moving as though to reach for a cord or weapon, so that did fall under 'reasonable force'
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True but irrelevant - nobody's claiming that it's not reasonable to kill terrorists in the course of their attacks
 
jimbob said:
I'm not sure what to make of this.
manslaughter

fair enough

The first part, we only have the word of a convicted killer.

True but irrelevant - nobody's claiming that it's not reasonable to kill terrorists in the course of their attacks
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I meant to say 'killing' not 'murdering', whoops. I was aware it was manslaughter and not murder.

The London Bridge terrorist case is relevant because any killing of 'a member of public' has to be independently investigated. And that one was and the police officer cleared, as having used 'reasonable force', not that 'it is not reasonable to kill terrorists in the course of their attacks'.
 
Can anyone point me to any report, witness account or anything which confirms the police account of "big, mad, scary black man"? And I don't mean Atkinson's father's apparent account to the police, as he, obviously, did not confirm that report in court.

I mean, if witnesses were able to tell the court that they saw Monk kick Atkinson in the head more than once, surely someone confirmed Monk's narrative of "big, mad, scary black man"?

None of the press accounts I've seen mention this.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Can anyone point me to any report, witness account or anything which confirms the police account of "big, mad, scary black man"? And I don't mean Atkinson's father's apparent account to the police, as he, obviously, did not confirm that report in court.

I mean, if witnesses were able to tell the court that they saw Monk kick Atkinson in the head more than once, surely someone confirmed Monk's narrative of "big, mad, scary black man"?

None of the press accounts I've seen mention this.
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Were there witnesses? I though the kick on the head was admitted and confirmed with blood on Monks boot and injuries.
 
^A couple of folk described seeing Monk kicking Atkinson repeatedly and seeing him (Atkinson) on the ground.

Monk claimed he'd kicked Atkinson in the shoulder, while the forensic evidence clearly showed he'd kicked him hard in the head.

ETA He did tell colleagues that he's kicked Atkinson in the head, but then later claimed he couldn't remember either doing it nor saying he had - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-57417506

Checking for reports containg other witness testimomny.
 
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Monk is a liar and he was trying to rely on the scary black man defence, which worked for the cops who murdered Sheku Bayoh and many others with excessive force and restraint, but hopefully will no longer work.

This is the UK's George Floyd case, and is hopefully a tipping point here, such that fewer BAME people (and others) will be killed by the police, or if they are killed, the police will be properly held to account.
 
Nessie said:
Monk is a liar and he was trying to rely on the scary black man defence, which worked for the cops who murdered Sheku Bayoh and many others with excessive force and restraint, but hopefully will no longer work.

This is the UK's George Floyd case, and is hopefully a tipping point here, such that fewer BAME people (and others) will be killed by the police, or if they are killed, the police will be properly held to account.
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Not sure the George Floyd comparison is a flattering one to pick. Chauvin got convicted of proper murder, not manslaughter. The scary black man defense still seems to be somewhat effective for reducing the culpability of killer cops.

Kicking someone in the head is widely understood by everyone to be lethal force. Manslaughter is a miscarriage of justice.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Not sure the George Floyd comparison is a flattering one to pick. Chauvin got convicted of proper murder, not manslaughter. The scary black man defense still seems to be somewhat effective for reducing the culpability of killer cops.

Kicking someone in the head is widely understood by everyone to be lethal force. Manslaughter is a miscarriage of justice.
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Agreed.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...nson-jury-discharged-failing-reach-verdict-pc

"A jury has been discharged following its failure to reach a verdict on allegations that a police officer assaulted the former footballer Dalian Atkinson with a baton after he was felled by a stun gun on the night he died.
The case against Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith, a West Mercia probationary constable, ended with a hung jury a day after PC Benjamin Monk was convicted of manslaughter and told he would face an inevitable prison term."

Hopefully there will be a re-trial.
 
Given the current controversy over the rate of rape convictions in the UK the BBC has put up a piece of fairly infamous footage. Back in the early 80s when 'fly on the wall' reality shows were relatively new the BBC got permission to film a series about the police. You can tell it was the early days because the police would never allow such unfettered access now and they certainly wouldn't have let the BBC get near what became the episode 'A complaint of Rape':

The police rape interview that shocked 1980s Britain

Shocked is probably an understatement and unfortunately I suspect the attitudes on display haven't changed as much as we might like to think.
 
I remember watching that documentary at the time. IME, rape investigations have changed significantly since then. The victim is treated far more sympathetically.
 
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