• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Cont: Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol - part 2

JoeMorgue said:
I had people clutching their pearls at me for being on team "Bright Pink Mist" as to the Insurrectionists a long time ago. I find the fact one single person was allowed to cross the threshold into the actual Capital to be a massive shame. You don't fail to hold a position that badly. If anything I'll criticize the police for not shooting a LOT more people.

Where we differ is that I think Law Enforcement has become so toxic that it needs a gutting and full top/down rebuilt, while you are just living some sort of "I'm mad I missed the 60s" Berkeley fantasy and hate the idea of cops so much that you can't bring yourself to have their existence as a positive in any narrative.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you quoted that particular part of my post if you weren't going to reply to it in any meaningful way.
 
Thermal said:
smartcooky said:
Let me guess... they live somewhere in or near "Deliverance" country
Click to expand...

Oddly, not really. He lives 20 minutes outside of Atlantic City, and an hour from Philly. Not exactly cut off from civilization. He's what we call a Piney, a semi-redneck from the Jersey Pine Barrens. Thing is, I never heard him say a peep about politics. If it didn't fire a projectile or get him high, he had no use for it. Just a happy-go-lucky Wildman. I honestly don't know how to process this.
Click to expand...


"Deliverance" country isn't a place. It's a state of mind. All too common among the sort of people on the Trump Crazy Train.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I'm not sure why you quoted that particular part of my post if you weren't going to reply to it in any meaningful way.
Click to expand...

My point is there no version of any narrative where a cop can even be neutral, much less good, with you.

You think the concept of cop is tainted and see it as your duty to point out that even the cop who ran into the burning building to save the orphans didn't separate his trash or whatever.
 
JoeMorgue said:
My point is there no version of any narrative where a cop can even be neutral, much less good, with you.

You think the concept of cop is tainted and see it as your duty to point out that even the cop who ran into the burning building to save the orphans didn't separate his trash or whatever.
Click to expand...

As far as all available evidence shows, it's a clean shoot. Babbitt got unlucky because she finally ran into a cop in the Capitol that took their duty seriously. The shooting is a model of police restraint and proportionality when it comes to use of force in stressful situations.

I don't see what moralizing about good or bad cops has to do with whether or not police departments have to obey the law when it comes to FOIA requests.

That's the point I keep making. The cops didn't deny the FOIA request citing one of the exemptions allowed by law, they simply did not respond as required. This is a subversion of the law, which was passed as an explicit means of holding the government accountable to the public, that governs what is or is not considered public info.

My point is simple. The cops should obey the law when it comes to FOIA requests, even when the process is being used by people I don't like.
 
Last edited:
SuburbanTurkey said:
.....

That's the point I keep making. The cops didn't deny the FOIA request citing one of the exemptions allowed by law, they simply did not respond as required. This is a subversion of the law, which was passed as an explicit means of holding the government accountable to the public, that governs what is or is not considered public info.
....
Click to expand...

Are the Capitol Police actually subject to FOIA regulations? The Congress has routinely exempted itself from laws that apply to the rest of the government. If so, is there a deadline for a response? Other departments routinely "slow walk" inconvenient FOIA requests. I don't think we can say "If you don't answer my question this week, you're breaking the law."
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
As far as all available evidence shows, it's a clean shoot. Babbitt got unlucky because she finally ran into a cop in the Capitol that took their duty seriously. The shooting is a model of police restraint and proportionality when it comes to use of force in stressful situations.

I don't see what moralizing about good or bad cops has to do with whether or not police departments have to obey the law when it comes to FOIA requests.

That's the point I keep making. The cops didn't deny the FOIA request citing one of the exemptions allowed by law, they simply did not respond as required. This is a subversion of the law, which was passed as an explicit means of holding the government accountable to the public, that governs what is or is not considered public info.

My point is simple. The cops should obey the law when it comes to FOIA requests, even when the process is being used by people I don't like.
Click to expand...

Yeah but given the current situation maybe revealing this officer's name would be a bad idea.
 
Bob001 said:
Are the Capitol Police actually subject to FOIA regulations? The Congress has routinely exempted itself from laws that apply to the rest of the government. If so, is there a deadline for a response? Other departments routinely "slow walk" inconvenient FOIA requests. I don't think we can say "If you don't answer my question this week, you're breaking the law."
Click to expand...

Yes, the FOIA law itself is quite toothless and many government agencies routinely blow off deadlines until forced by a judge to comply. It's a real weakness to the FOIA system and is maliciously used to undermine the spirit of the law. Unless people are willing to spend money on legal fees, the government can basically ignore a FOIA request.

Seems to me a bad PR move to give these CHUDs an issue where they might actually secure a small win in the courts. There's a good chance that they will prevail in getting these documents handed over by court order, and the right wing conspiracy machine will parade this minor victory as proof of a larger malfeasance.
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
How do you know that?
Click to expand...

As reported by the press, it's one of the elements they are suing for:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/ashli-babbitt-husband-lawsuit/2021/06/09/ff9c46ca-c950-11eb-afd0-9726f7ec0ba6_story.html

Aaron Babbitt said he requested the records in April under the Freedom of Information Act and got no reply. He said the city has neither provided records nor demonstrated “that the requested records are lawfully exempt from production.”

The D.C. government has not yet responded to the lawsuit in court. An initial hearing before a judge is scheduled for Sept. 3.
Click to expand...
 
The GOP legislators who voted not to give medals to the Capitol Police. House approves Congressional Gold Medals for Jan. 6 police officers. 21 Republicans voted no.
The Republicans who voted no were Reps. Thomas Massie (Ky.), Andy Biggs (Ariz.), Lauren Boebert (Colo.), Michael Cloud (Texas), Andrew Clyde (Ga.), Warren Davidson (Ohio), Matt Gaetz (Fla.), Louie Gohmert (Texas), Bob Good (Va.), Paul Gosar (Ariz.), Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.), Andy Harris (Md.), Jody Hice (Ga.), Mary Miller (Ill.), Barry Moore (Ala.), Ralph Norman (S.C.), Scott Perry (Pa.), John Rose (Tenn.), Matt Rosendale (Mont.), Chip Roy (Texas), and Greg Steube (Fla.).
Click to expand...
 
Tucker on fox says that the 'key people' involved in organising the attack haven't been charged because they are all FBI operatives.
These are the 'unindicted co-conspirators' mentioned in the indictments of the various Oathkeepers.

He's shocked!

I can’t keep up, it was peaceful, it was violent but lead by Antifa and now, it was violent but led by the FBI.

video in link

https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1404975737543725066
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
The GOP legislators who voted not to give medals to the Capitol Police. House approves Congressional Gold Medals for Jan. 6 police officers. 21 Republicans voted no.
Click to expand...

Just so its clear who these people are...

Thomas Massie (Ky.)

Andy Biggs (Ariz.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Lauren Boebert (Colo.)
- Probable 1/6 insurrection co-conspirator
- QAnon nutjob

Michael Cloud (Texas)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Andrew Clyde (Ga.)
- Probable 1/6 insurrection co-conspirator
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6

Warren Davidson (Ohio)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6

Matt Gaetz (Fla.)
- Accused sex trafficker
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Louie Gohmert (Texas)
- Dumbest person in all of Congress
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Bob Good (Va.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6

Paul Gosar (Ariz.)
- Probable 1/6 insurrection co-conspirator
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6

Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.)
- Probable 1/6 insurrection co-conspirator
- QAnon nutjob

Andy Harris (Md.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Jody Hice (Ga.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Mary Miller (Ill.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6

Barry Moore (Ala.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6

Ralph Norman (S.C.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Scott Perry (Pa.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

John Rose (Tenn.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Matt Rosendale (Mont.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6

Chip Roy (Texas)

Greg Steube (Fla.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states
 
Huh - He says there were about 20 unindicted co-conspirators, and about 20 Republican congresspeople voted against the Congressional Gold Medals.
 
smartcooky said:
Who says that?
Click to expand...

Tucker on fox says that the 'key people' involved in organising the attack haven't been charged because they are all FBI operatives.
These are the 'unindicted co-conspirators' mentioned in the indictments of the various Oathkeepers.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Tucker on fox says that the 'key people' involved in organising the attack haven't been charged because they are all FBI operatives.
These are the 'unindicted co-conspirators' mentioned in the indictments of the various Oathkeepers.
Click to expand...

The problem with Tuckums is he doesn't have any idea what he is talking about.

There are several uses of terms such as "PERSON ONE", "PERSON TWO" etc, one of those is to allow an indictment to move forward knowing that there are other, known, but as yet not arrested people who are involved. This is most likely the case here. The FBI have previously stated they expect there will be about 550 people arrested and charged in relation to 1/6 by the time its all done... at time of writing, there have only been 521.. so there are about 30 others still at large that they are looking for.

The entire premise of his baseless conspiracy theory is predicated on his personal assumption that those unindicted co-conspirators are FBI Agents. I posted links to and quotes from the Oath Keeper indictment earlier in the thread. I have also read it beginning to end.... there is absolutely nothing in there that even remotely indicate this to be the case.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom