Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

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bonzombiekitty said:
One would think cops would prefer you find a safe, well lit spot to pull over off the highway. Forget the person being pulled over, it's safer for the cop too. Particularly at night.
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That's why the whole "Just put yourself in their shoes" argument is no longer working for me (as much anyway) in regards to LEOs.

If I'm a cop and I'm pulling you over and you take the time to pull into a safer spot in a way that you're obviously not stalling or trying to get away (and this woman was obviously doing neither of those things).... I'd be appreciative of that.
 
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ponderingturtle said:
But she failed to give instant and unquestioning abidance to the cop and so was found in contempt of cop. She should have behaved in a more respectful manner.
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Exactly. Everyone knows that police officers have the power to challenge anyone to a game of "Simon Says" any time, any place, for any reason, or for no reason, and if you lose the game they are legally allowed to kill you.
 
Also it was a bright red minivan. Was it going to get away?

Okay Johnny Bankrobber with 5 active felony warrants who just fled from a North Hollywood shootout level bank robbery in his souped up muscle car and is screaming out the window "You'll never take me alive!"... okay maybe that's worth some risk in stopping him so he doesn't get away.

This... was not that. This was a woman in a minivan who's only crime was a potential speeding violation who had slowed to a crawl and put on her blinkers. The threat vector was low.
 
Cops kill drivers, passengers and bystanders with "PIT maneuver." Chllling videos.
So far this year, nine people have been killed nationwide in PIT maneuvers, including a 16-year-old who was driving a stolen car in Longmont, Colo., and a driver and passenger who were being chased by police for speeding in Creek County, Okla. Just this month, a 29-year-old suspected drunk driver who fled a traffic stop in Coweta County, Ga., died after a PIT maneuver.

Since 2016 at least 30 people have died, and hundreds have been injured — including some officers — when police used the maneuver to end pursuits, according to an investigation by The Washington Post.
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[2020 article] https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...euver-police-deaths/?itid=lk_inline_manual_10
 
Bob001 said:
Cops kill drivers, passengers and bystanders with "PIT maneuver." Chllling videos.

[2020 article] https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...euver-police-deaths/?itid=lk_inline_manual_10
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The UK use of such methods was questioned after we had several terrible incidents in which people died. These days there are quite a few stages before a high-speed pursuit or other tactics can be used, plus police officers must be trained to engage in such. It especially needs to be a proportionate response, so someone seen jumping a red light is not grounds for a 10 mile high-speed pursuit through a residential area as schools are emptying for the day.

ETA: If you want to see an example of the level of detail in a typical UK police force policies for vehicle pursuits: https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk...019-10/driving_and_use_of_police_vehicles.pdf
 
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You don't need to be stopped in the UK for a moving traffic offence. If it is inconvenient to stop a car they will just issue a 'Section 172 Notice' This is a request to identify the driver at a given time and location. It is usually combined with a 'Notice of intended prosecution'
It has to be issued within 14 days of the offence and replied to within 28 days.
Failure to reply is a separate offence carrying a higher penalty than most moving traffic offences.
 
Darat said:
The UK use of such methods was questioned after we had several terrible incidents in which people died. These days there are quite a few stages before a high-speed pursuit or other tactics can be used, plus police officers must be trained to engage in such. It especially needs to be a proportionate response, so someone seen jumping a red light is not grounds for a 10 mile high-speed pursuit through a residential area as schools are emptying for the day.

ETA: If you want to see an example of the level of detail in a typical UK police force policies for vehicle pursuits: https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk...019-10/driving_and_use_of_police_vehicles.pdf
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Note that this isn't just a high-speed pursuit. U.S. cops routinely chase drivers pedal-to-the-metal at the slightest provocation. The PIT maneuver is a deliberate collision, where the cop tries to run the car off the road.
 
Bob001 said:
Note that this isn't just a high-speed pursuit. U.S. cops routinely chase drivers pedal-to-the-metal at the slightest provocation. The PIT maneuver is a deliberate collision, where the cop tries to run the car off the road.
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It might be nice if the police tried some basic police work and just knocked on the door the next morning.
 
Police in Ocean City, MD taze someone who wasn't resisting. He's given conflicting instructions by three different officers. One telling him not to move, another telling him to get on the ground, another telling him to take off his backpack. He starts to take off his backpack and gets tazed.

His crime? Violating a no vaping on the boardwalk ordinance.

https://twitter.com/DrRJKavanagh/status/1404220794096455684
 
Craig4 said:
It might be nice if the police tried some basic police work and just knocked on the door the next morning.
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I remember many years ago, driving back to our home town after a two-day congress near Ottawa... and on the highway we were passed by a racer bike who must've been doing over 200kph, followed by a police cruiser.

Of course the police never engaged in dangerous tactics, and never caught the bike... until a couple of hours later when he got home and found that the police were waiting for him there.

Oops.
 
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bonzombiekitty said:
Police in Ocean City, MD taze someone who wasn't resisting. He's given conflicting instructions by three different officers. One telling him not to move, another telling him to get on the ground, another telling him to take off his backpack. He starts to take off his backpack and gets tazed.

His crime? Violating a no vaping on the boardwalk ordinance.

https://twitter.com/DrRJKavanagh/status/1404220794096455684
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I recall getting a lot of flack when I suggested Biden's proposed ban on menthols cigarettes would only result in a bigger target being painted on the black community.

This is what it means to criminalize petty behaviors in the US. It means cops will use obscene force for even the mildest breaches of public order. Until this country can get our unhinged police forces back under control, we should be extremely conservative about what should or should not be made illegal.
 
Lots of people posting that he reached back with his hand and could have been going for a gun so the cops were justified. He's lucky they showed restraint and just tased him.

I don't see a vape pen anywhere in the video.
 
bonzombiekitty said:
Police in Ocean City, MD taze someone who wasn't resisting. He's given conflicting instructions by three different officers. One telling him not to move, another telling him to get on the ground, another telling him to take off his backpack. He starts to take off his backpack and gets tazed.
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I've said this before but it baffles me why police departments don't have a designated "yeller" in those situations, so that a single person yells a single, simple order to follow.
 
Belz... said:
I've said this before but it baffles me why police departments don't have a designated "yeller" in those situations, so that a single person yells a single, simple order to follow.
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Because they don't really care about minimizing the amount of force used.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Lots of people posting that he reached back with his hand and could have been going for a gun so the cops were justified. .
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He reached back to take off his backpack, which is what one of the cops was telling him to do.

Police departments need to ensure only one officer is giving instructions and that those instructions are clear. Having a bunch of officers yelling conflicting instructions over each other is just a recipe for disaster.
 
Belz... said:
I've said this before but it baffles me why police departments don't have a designated "yeller" in those situations, so that a single person yells a single, simple order to follow.
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It's a deliberate tactic. They get to taser you whatever you do.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I recall getting a lot of flack when I suggested Biden's proposed ban on menthols cigarettes would only result in a bigger target being painted on the black community.

This is what it means to criminalize petty behaviors in the US. It means cops will use obscene force for even the mildest breaches of public order. Until this country can get our unhinged police forces back under control, we should be extremely conservative about what should or should not be made illegal.
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THere are other issues here.

For those who don't know, Ocean City is a bit summer getaway weekend spot locally. THe sort of place people go when they want to be on the boardwalk, and don't mind the horrific drive to and from the place. So I'm never there in the summer, in other words :D But it's the same sort of thing you have in other local beachfront touristey/getaway places.

THe "no smoking/Vaping" thing is always going to be a local ordinance there, because second-hand smoke annoys people. I agree with you on petty crimes often leading to more racialized brutality, but in this case it's "we want more tourists" rather than public health - just to be clear what's motivating this particular ordinance.

*anyway*, the second problem is that with lots of tourists in summer, and damn near nobody otherwise, there's also a need for a lot of extra cops in the summer, or what they call "seasonal police". So, lots of part-timers of various sorts, with little to no training. They're known to be, well, trash.

Put them together, and...this.
 
bonzombiekitty said:
Police in Ocean City, MD taze someone who wasn't resisting. He's given conflicting instructions by three different officers. One telling him not to move, another telling him to get on the ground, another telling him to take off his backpack. He starts to take off his backpack and gets tazed.

His crime? Violating a no vaping on the boardwalk ordinance.

https://twitter.com/DrRJKavanagh/status/1404220794096455684
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I don't even think the tasering is the worst part. The cops cuffed him and goddamn hogtied him and dragged him to a police car. That's the worst thing. What was he doing wrong again?

I will never, ever understand the american way of arresting any and all for any little thing. What the actual ****?!
 
Mumbles said:
*anyway*, the second problem is that with lots of tourists in summer, and damn near nobody otherwise, there's also a need for a lot of extra cops in the summer, or what they call "seasonal police". So, lots of part-timers of various sorts, with little to no training. They're known to be, well, trash.

Put them together, and...this.
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Some of these knuckledraggers certainly look the part.
 
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