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Does anything exist?

And a person can beat their wife AND work an abused woman's crisis help line.

Your point?

We get it. You can list off religious scientists. And?
 
Again "Everything is a philosophy!" is their only argument.

Looking at the world through empirical based standards with rules in place to extract data from observation with the fewest errors so you have a clear view of the world that can accurately predict future events and trends that you are constantly refining and improving is "a type of philosophy!"

Slaughtering and reading the entrails of a goal to figure out which virgin to sacrifice to make the harvest bountiful because that's the way it's always been done is also "a type of philosophy."

Therefore when the first mentality criticizes the second mentality for being stupid irrational woo, they are being hypocrites because "they are both doing a type of philosophy."

And then a bunch of people run in and scream "Nobody is saying that!" even though somebody literally just did, and then feel the need to defend the concept of philosophy because it's got such a "Old White Man from the Upper Classes of Bored Societies in history said this in Latin and that's always been the shortcut image of 'deep' thinking" pedigree about it.
 
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"The idea that facts exist is just like... your opinion man. There's equally valid 'Facts don't exist' philosophies, and what you are doing is philosophy, so you can't criticize someone else philosophy."

Philosophy is basically argumentative "Check your privilege" except the privilege you are expected to check is "I am correct because I don't make stuff up at random."
 
Belz... said:
Assuming you're right, that ain't a philosophy. It's a fact. It's a face whether I want it or not.
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But is it a “fact” fact or just a fact because if it’s a “fact” fact then it can’t really be a science fact because science doesn’t say anything is a fact and the fact is there is no such thing as a fact so, in fact, it’s philosophy. (Did I do philosophy right? Do I get an invisible pony? (I’m allergic to ponies so maybe a dragon? I have some room in my garage))
 
I finally double checked, and yes, logic is formally one of the four main branches of philosophy. Why does one contingent here deny that and keep insisting that philosophy is exclusively metaphysics?

Philosophy is handy for just about everything, because it deals with theoretical underpinnings. If you have a political debate with a conservative Republican, it's handy to understand their (and your own) theoretical underpinnings. Why try to handwave them away and say "no no no, when it becomes practical I don't call it philosophy anymore"? Pretty capricious rewording.

Eta: and re: "that's just your opinion, man", epistemology (another formal branch) deals specifically with differentiating fact from opinion. Wanna talk about the practicality of axiology (a third formal branch)while we're at it? Might shed some light on what is valuable and not.
 
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LarryS said:
It's been explained many times - did you watch the 2nd video by Sabine I posted?
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Maybe you're not as clear as you think you are.

We're not discussing what science is, ok? We are discussing the SCOPE of science. You're the one who is deliberately putting things outside that scope.

Name one thing that's outside the scope of science.
 
Belz... said:
Maybe you're not as clear as you think you are.

We're not discussing what science is, ok? We are discussing the SCOPE of science. You're the one who is deliberately putting things outside that scope.

Name one thing that's outside the scope of science.
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Thomas Dolby's eyesight.
 
Belz... said:
Maybe you're not as clear as you think you are.

We're not discussing what science is, ok? We are discussing the SCOPE of science. You're the one who is deliberately putting things outside that scope.

Name one thing that's outside the scope of science.
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In the context of this thread, science can not say a photon is real - except as a photon exists explains the outcomes of observations. You say these are the same claims, I (and Sabine) claim they are different claims. Claiming photons exist because photons are observed by scientists is a belief.
I am not suggesting that means photons don’t exist, nor am I suggesting it’s irrational to believe they exist. I believe that photons exist - but this not the point.
 
Darat said:
Anyone that thinks that science "works".

All they are trying to do is equate science with religion so they can claim there is a gap for their non-evidenced beliefs.
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This is the problem with this forum, folks get so defensive and emotional they can’t think.
 
LarryS said:
In the context of this thread, science can not say a photon is real - except as a photon exists explains the outcomes of observations. You say these are the same claims, I (and Sabine) claim they are different claims.
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Well, you're both wrong. Appeal to authority aside, "real" means "observable". What the hell do you think the word means? Of a thing CANNOT be observed, even in principle, then it's not real, as far as this universe is concerned.

Claiming photons exist because photons are observed by scientists is a belief.
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Hogwash. That it's observed DIStINGUISHES it from a belief.
 
Belz... said:
Well, you're both wrong. Appeal to authority aside, "real" means "observable". What the hell do you think the word means? Of a thing CANNOT be observed, even in principle, then it's not real, as far as this universe is concerned.



Hogwash. That it's observed DIStINGUISHES it from a belief.
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Check out this philosophical debate about epistemology!
 
LarryS said:
This is the problem with this forum, folks get so defensive and emotional they can’t think.
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Who cares? Reality isn't real. You don't exist to get bothered by it.

I think therefore I don't care about what you have to say because maybe you aren't real.

Or.... ah qualia. Or something in Latin. Are a dualist or materialist? "Well Spinoza said..."
 
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