Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 27

[Segnosaur]

So, the answer is 'no'. What you saw from the brief bits you read is just that "a couple of extracts". I have read his book and he was more than just "a fixer". He lays it on the line: Trump is an out and out racist. There is no reason for him NOT to say he heard him use the N word if he had. And he doesn't. Your "highly probable" does not come anywhere near Cohen's ten years of being Trump's personal lawyer. Others would disagree with you that he was not Trump's 'confidant', but I suppose you could be right and they could all be wrong.

I guess the question is how you define 'confidant'. At least to me the definition has a certain amount of fuzziness.

Trump did trust Cohen enough to reveal certain criminal activities to him.

But I don't think Trump would have ever considered him a 'friend' (I remember reading a story about how Cohen invited Trump to a relative's birthday and Trump blew him off.) It is possible that Trump compartmentalized what he would reveal to certain people, using the N-word around some people but not others.

 

[quadraginta]

My hunch is the biggest indicator of whether someone is likely to slip out with the N-word or any other really crude racial slur is whether they grew up around people likely to say it. Personally I've mostly encountered it "in the wild" among rural poor.

Your experience differs from mine.

I grew up in West Virginia, which is mostly about as rural as it gets. I rarely encountered the use of that particular slur, even though others were quite common. This in spite of the fact that one of my girlfriends in high school (late '60s) was black.

When I moved away and began working construction in urban and (yes) suburban settings I ran into it much more often.

 

[Belz...]

I doff my hat to you, sir.

My (hunt and peck) typing has always been abysmal under the best of circumstances, and encroaching years has done nothing to improve it.* Quite the contrary.

I read over every post at least twice before I submit it, and still end up editing for corrections way too often. Spellcheck has been a very good friend to me.

(*- By way of example, I had two typos in that sentence alone. That's actually pretty good for me. )

I have to be much more careful than before, though. As I get older I can't type to save my life. Only my dedication to proper language saves me from constant embarrassment.

 

[Stacyhs]

I guess the question is how you define 'confidant'. At least to me the definition has a certain amount of fuzziness.

Trump did trust Cohen enough to reveal certain criminal activities to him.

But I don't think Trump would have ever considered him a 'friend' (I remember reading a story about how Cohen invited Trump to a relative's birthday and Trump blew him off.) It is possible that Trump compartmentalized what he would reveal to certain people, using the N-word around some people but not others.

It's always possible, but I don't think Trump ever truly considered anyone a "friend". He saw people as pawns to be used; they were only 'friends' as long as they had a use for Donald. Once that was no longer true, the 'friendship' no longer existed. One has to read Cohen's book to truly understand how Trump sees friendship...or as Mary Trump puts it: relationships for Donald are always transactional. Even with his wives and children. Listen to how Donald uses the word "friend". EVERYONE is his friend, even those he barely knows and even calls by the wrong name. That's his style; he exaggerates and uses hyperbole. Everything's GREAT, FANTASTIC! It's the same with his use of "friend". It's means nothing to him because Donald has no clue what it means to be loyal friend himself. The very concept is beyond him. Like I said, you have to read Cohen's book to understand just how incapable Trump is of true friendship and to read examples of how he screwed over his "friends" and the wives and children of his "friends".

 

[quadraginta]

I guess the question is how you define 'confidant'. At least to me the definition has a certain amount of fuzziness.

Trump did trust Cohen enough to reveal certain criminal activities to him.

But I don't think Trump would have ever considered him a 'friend' (I remember reading a story about how Cohen invited Trump to a relative's birthday and Trump blew him off.) It is possible that Trump compartmentalized what he would reveal to certain people, using the N-word around some people but not others.

I doubt that T**** has ever considered anyone a "friend". I don't think his mind has ever worked that way. I suspect his world has always been populated by people he wants something from, people he can use, and people who don't matter. With any particular person's status changing between those classifications as circumstances dictate.

If you can think of some examples of T**** friends, I'd be curious to hear who they might be.

Remember, this is the guy whose single most unwavering personality trait is his cheerful inclination to throw anyone under the bus as soon as they are no longer useful to him.

And often before.

 

[quadraginta]

It's always possible, but I don't think Trump ever truly considered anyone a "friend". He saw people as pawns to be used; they were only 'friends' as long as they had a use for Donald. Once that was no longer true, the 'friendship' no longer existed. One has to read Cohen's book to truly understand how Trump sees friendship...or as Mary Trump puts it: relationships for Donald are always transactional. Even with his wives and children. Listen to how Donald uses the word "friend". EVERYONE is his friend, even those he barely knows and even calls by the wrong name. That's his style; he exaggerates and uses hyperbole. Everything's GREAT, FANTASTIC! It's the same with his use of "friend". It's means nothing to him because Donald has no clue what it means to be loyal friend himself. The very concept is beyond him. Like I said, you have to read Cohen's book to understand just how incapable Trump is of true friendship and to read examples of how he screwed over his "friends" and the wives and children of his "friends".

You posted this as I was typing my response.

If it wasn't for my abysmal typing I might have beaten you to it.

 

[Segnosaur]

It's always possible, but I don't think Trump ever truly considered anyone a "friend". He saw people as pawns to be used; they were only 'friends' as long as they had a use for Donald. Once that was no longer true, the 'friendship' no longer existed. One has to read Cohen's book to truly understand how Trump sees friendship...or as Mary Trump puts it: relationships for Donald are always transactional.

My point was.... It is assumed that Cohen was a 'confidant' of Trump, but without any sort of real friendship (in this case because Trump seems to be unable to develop real friendships) you might question just how much of a true confidant Cohen was.

On a side note: Now that you've mentioned Mary Trump, it should be noted that she is one of the people who claims she has heard Trump use the N-word...

From: CBS News
"Growing up, it was sort of normal to hear them use the n-word or use anti-Semitic expressions," Mary Trump said in the Post interview. When asked about this claim during an interview with MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Thursday, Mary Trump doubled down and expanded upon on her remarks....Maddow again asked Mary Trump if she specifically heard Mr. Trump use the N-word and anti-Semitic slurs. She responded "yes" to both.


Now, was she wrong? Perhaps... she's been estranged from the family for years. Maybe she was misattributing the use of the N-word to Trump when it was someone else who used it. But its also possible that Trump was more comfortable using the N-word around family than around someone like Cohen.

 

[Dr. Keith]

"Fake my tails" would've been a better comeback.

Truth.

 

[Stacyhs]

My point was.... It is assumed that Cohen was a 'confidant' of Trump, but without any sort of real friendship (in this case because Trump seems to be unable to develop real friendships) you might question just how much of a true confidant Cohen was.

On a side note: Now that you've mentioned Mary Trump, it should be noted that she is one of the people who claims she has heard Trump use the N-word...

From: CBS News
"Growing up, it was sort of normal to hear them use the n-word or use anti-Semitic expressions," Mary Trump said in the Post interview. When asked about this claim during an interview with MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Thursday, Mary Trump doubled down and expanded upon on her remarks....Maddow again asked Mary Trump if she specifically heard Mr. Trump use the N-word and anti-Semitic slurs. She responded "yes" to both.


Now, was she wrong? Perhaps... she's been estranged from the family for years. Maybe she was misattributing the use of the N-word to Trump when it was someone else who used it. But its also possible that Trump was more comfortable using the N-word around family than around someone like Cohen.

That could certainly be possible, especially with Cohen being Jewish and perhaps even Trump would be aware Cohen would be more sensitive to the use of such slurs. Or perhaps Trump deliberately used the N word around his father whom he was desperate to please and ingratiate himself with in the same way that we see Don Jr and Eric do with Donald. Fred Trump was as much a sociopath as Donald and he very much helped create the monster that is Donald Trump.

 

[Norman Alexander]

So, the answer is 'no'. What you saw from the brief bits you read is just that "a couple of extracts". I have read his book and he was more than just "a fixer". He lays it on the line: Trump is an out and out racist. There is no reason for him NOT to say he heard him use the N word if he had. And he doesn't. Your "highly probable" does not come anywhere near Cohen's ten years of being Trump's personal lawyer. Others would disagree with you that he was not Trump's 'confidant', but I suppose you could be right and they could all be wrong. After all, you have read a couple of extracts.


https://www.businessinsider.com/mic...-behind-bars-ny-criminal-investigation-2021-5


https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/09/politics/michael-cohen-fbi/index.html


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mic...nal-attorney-now-testifying/story?id=61327524


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/16/michael-cohen-trump-attorney-client-privilege

Donny is 74 years old. Cohen has been with him 10 of those years. I guess Donny never said anything at all in the other 64 years.

 

[dirtywick]

I don't think there's any way Trump could win in 2024. It's pretty obvious his whole campaign and platform is just going to be bitter bitching about the 2020 election loss and I don't think that's a winning message.

 

[Stacyhs]

Donny is 74 years old. Cohen has been with him 10 of those years. I guess Donny never said anything at all in the other 64 years.

Did I say Trump never used the N word in his life? No. I said "Michael Cohen says he never heard Trump use the N word even though he said lots of other racist things." You then declared that "Cohen was his lawyer, not his confidant" and then reinforced that with repeating that Cohen "was a fixer, not a confidant. " You were able to make that declaration from reading a "couple extracts from his book" in opposition to the consensus of... oh....just about everyone else.

So let me ask you, the things that Cohen fixed like the Stormy Daniels payment and, 'fixing' that with his wife Melania, and the myriad other personal things you don't know about because you didn't read his book: just how did he do all that without Trump taking him into his confidence?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Poll: A quarter of Americans say Donald Trump is 'true president' of the US

One-fourth of the country says Donald Trump is the "true president" of the United States, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll.

More than six months after the 2020 election and four months after Joe Biden's victory was confirmed by Congress, 25% of Americans surveyed, including 53% of Republicans, say Trump is still the "true president," a finding in line with polls showing that a significant portion of the USA does not accept the legitimacy of the presidential election.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...surveyed-say-trump-true-president/7426714002/

 

[Belz...]

I don't think there's any way Trump could win in 2024. It's pretty obvious his whole campaign and platform is just going to be bitter bitching about the 2020 election loss and I don't think that's a winning message.

Right. In 2016 he didn't really propose anything concrete, but at least there were some vague ideas people could latch on to and tack on to their own beliefs and hopes.

Now he's just complaining. Waahh Waahh!! Election was stolen!! Boo!!

That doesn't sound like a winning strategy. Oh, he'd win the nomination, alright, but I don't think he would win.

 

[pgwenthold]

Poll: A quarter of Americans say Donald Trump is 'true president' of the US

One-fourth of the country says Donald Trump is the "true president" of the United States, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll.

More than six months after the 2020 election and four months after Joe Biden's victory was confirmed by Congress, 25% of Americans surveyed, including 53% of Republicans, say Trump is still the "true president," a finding in line with polls showing that a significant portion of the USA does not accept the legitimacy of the presidential election.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...surveyed-say-trump-true-president/7426714002/

How is it possible to engage with people who live in a completely different reality?

 

[The Don]

How is it possible to engage with people who live in a completely different reality?

Good question.

Apparently 40% of Americans self identify as creationists if this Gallup poll from a couple of years ago are to be believed.

Forty percent of U.S. adults ascribe to a strictly creationist view of human origins, believing that God created them in their present form within roughly the past 10,000 years. However, more Americans continue to think that humans evolved over millions of years -- either with God's guidance (33%) or, increasingly, without God's involvement at all (22%).

https://news.gallup.com/poll/261680/americans-believe-creationism.aspx

 

[JoeMorgue]

*Sighs* If only there a movement that has been telling us for decades that people believing in factually wrong nonsense was bad and we should figure out a way beyond "LOL just ignore it / what are they hurting / oh why do you have to be right all the time / let people have their fun" to compact it.

If only.

Yes 40% of people thinking something that is factually false is bad. Welcome to the club. You know now what being a skeptic has always been like.

Again I'm legit so angry at how not novel or new any of this is. The only difference is it is the text of politics instead of just the subtext.

"Oh noes! People are wrong! And just keep being wrong!"

Yeah. SUCKS DON'T IT!.

 

[The Don]

*Sighs* If only there a movement that has been telling us for decades that people believing in factually wrong nonsense was bad and we should figure out a way beyond "LOL just ignore it / what are they hurting / oh why do you have to be right all the time / let people have their fun" to compact it.

If only.

Yes 40% of people thinking something that is factually false is bad. Welcome to the club. You know now what being a skeptic has always been like.

Again I'm legit so angry at how not novel or new any of this is. The only difference is it is the text of politics instead of just the subtext.

"Oh noes! People are wrong! And just keep being wrong!"

Yeah. SUCKS DON'T IT!.

Well education would be a start, but when the predominant religion in a country states that eating from the tree of knowledge is a sin which results in being banished from paradise, education (as opposed to indoctrination) faces a major uphill battle.

 

[eerok]

I don't think there's any way Trump could win in 2024. It's pretty obvious his whole campaign and platform is just going to be bitter bitching about the 2020 election loss and I don't think that's a winning message.

I disagree. There certainly is a way, and the GOP are busy making it happen. By taking control of state election laws and bending them to their advantage, they intend to parlay the fake stolen election crap into an election cheat for themselves. It's right there in plain sight, and that's how they've gotten away with their election cheating for so many years. It's just ramping up now due to the ease of crafting and disseminating disinfo on social media.

All it takes in this case is for Trump's lies to be believed by enough gullible suckers, or accepted as useful by enough dingleberries hanging on for their self-interest. That's all the message he needs.

 

[Segnosaur]

Did I say Trump never used the N word in his life? No. I said "Michael Cohen says he never heard Trump use the N word even though he said lots of other racist things." You then declared that "Cohen was his lawyer, not his confidant" and then reinforced that with repeating that Cohen "was a fixer, not a confidant. " You were able to make that declaration from reading a "couple extracts from his book" in opposition to the consensus of... oh....just about everyone else.

I think the problem is.... the way you stated your arguments made it seem like you were suggesting Trump never used the N-word, based on the logic that:
- Cohen never heard him use it
- Cohen was a 'confidant', and if he didn't use it around a confidant, he is unlikely to have used it elsewhere

That may not have been your intention, but I think a few of us assumed that that was what you were arguing.