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Being a racist while having a soft skull

theprestige said:
This is victim-blaming, pure and simple. And thus a tacit endorsement of the idea that racist speech justifies violent retaliation. Not only justifies it, but requires it. Requires it to the degree that it robs the violent responder of all agency, and absolves them of all responsibility.
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I just wanted to reply to this since I was catching up on the thread. It wasn't victim blaming, in fact I took the words I quoted completely and almost cartoonishly out of their context. At best, it was victim mocking. I've repeatedly said, in no uncertain terms, that I don't feel he should have punched the old man.

That being said, I'm not losing any sleep over it. The worst part about this is that it might have just been the result of two people having a bad day.

theprestige said:
The truth is that it wasn't the words that put the old man in the ground. It was the physical violence the other person chose to inflict on him.
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Right. The old man bears absolutely no responsibility in this at all. He is completely and entirely blame free.

I love how this ties into the "wE Don'T eVEn knOW tHe oLd maN sAid tEH rACIsms?!?!"

Sure, that totally passes the sniff test. The old man is a regular customer that Pujols has run into on multiple occasions; however, on this day Pujols just wanted to haul off and bust him in the ******* mouth. That's why Pujols purposefully angered this man in the drive thru, got him so mad that he parked his car and came in, and then didn't say anything at all racist, and Pujols was like, "IIII''''mmm aaaaaa tttthhhhuuuuggggg aaaaaahhhh" and ******* blasted him in the mouth. That makes total sense, and fits into the storyline perfectly. That's how ******* thuggish Pujols is...
 
theprestige said:
But this could be cleared up in a heartbeat, by anyone who is celebrating the outcome of this violence. All they have to do is say, in so many words, that they believe violence in response to speech is wrong, and the death of the victim should not be celebrated for that reason.
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Violence in response to speech is wrong. I can celebrate the death of whoever the **** I want to, anytime I want to and I don't need permission to do it.

That being said, at no point have I celebrated the death of this man. I've shown nothing more than indifference, and perhaps some mockery.
 
Seriously what's our shelf life on the whole stupid "Old people get a pass on being racist" thing? It's gotta be getting close.
 
Planigale said:
Sounds like everyday life as a woman. Yet somehow we don't go round punching every man who makes a sexist comment.
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Black men don't punch every man who makes a racist comment either. I bet there are many women who would like to or have thought about dishing out a punch in the chops and thought better of it.

My logic and argument applies absolutely to women as well however.
 
plague311 said:
I just wanted to reply to this since I was catching up on the thread. It wasn't victim blaming, in fact I took the words I quoted completely and almost cartoonishly out of their context. At best, it was victim mocking. I've repeatedly said, in no uncertain terms, that I don't feel he should have punched the old man.

That being said, I'm not losing any sleep over it. The worst part about this is that it might have just been the result of two people having a bad day.



Right. The old man bears absolutely no responsibility in this at all. He is completely and entirely blame free.

I love how this ties into the "wE Don'T eVEn knOW tHe oLd maN sAid tEH rACIsms?!?!"

Sure, that totally passes the sniff test. The old man is a regular customer that Pujols has run into on multiple occasions; however, on this day Pujols just wanted to haul off and bust him in the ******* mouth. That's why Pujols purposefully angered this man in the drive thru, got him so mad that he parked his car and came in, and then didn't say anything at all racist, and Pujols was like, "IIII''''mmm aaaaaa tttthhhhuuuuggggg aaaaaahhhh" and ******* blasted him in the mouth. That makes total sense, and fits into the storyline perfectly. That's how ******* thuggish Pujols is...
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Yeah, but the flip side is the same. The old guy was a regular customer, then one day shows racist fangs out of the blue? Not a ton more likely or not than the reverse.

I think it's reasonable to take Pujols version as true, as it has good explanatory power and lacking any reason to believe otherwise. But as I said earlier, it's a little funny that the assailant's version is not being dismissed as "obviously" self-serving, as we usually see on these kinds of threads.
 
Okay that was the first time in the history of this and all possible universes he called a black guy the N-word.

And?

Racial slurs aren't on the "The first one's free" list.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Okay that was the first time in the history of this and all possible universes he called a black guy the N-word.

And?

Racial slurs aren't on the "The first one's free" list.
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It would be objectively funnier if the first and only time this guy used a racial slur he got put in the forever box for it.
 
Thermal said:
Yeah, but the flip side is the same. The old guy was a regular customer, then one day shows racist fangs out of the blue? Not a ton more likely or not than the reverse.
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We'll disagree there. It's way, WAY more plausible that the old man decided to "show racist fangs out of the blue". I'm not going to present a long, drawn out "for instance" because I don't feel like it; however, my anecdotal experience is that things like this happen frequently. Enough to where one of my favorite comedians, Bill Burr, has a stand-up bit about it happening. I've also been in a lot of nursing homes recently.

Thermal said:
I think it's reasonable to take Pujols version as true, as it has good explanatory power and lacking any reason to believe otherwise. But as I said earlier, it's a little funny that the assailant's version is not being dismissed as "obviously" self-serving, as we usually see on these kinds of threads.
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To be honest, if he wanted the story to be self-serving and the best thing he came up with was "he was being rude and said something racist. I asked him to repeat it and then blasted him in the mouth" would be a pretty minimal self-serve, eh?

Pujols undoubtedly knew there were cameras there. He undoubtedly knew there were other people there. He undoubtedly knew that what he did was wrong....that part just probably came about after the anger subsided.

Pujols is no angel. The old man might be, now, depending on your religious outlook but he wasn't in the store. Until something else comes out that shows his story is wrong, I'd say it's the most reasonable explanation.
 
Also can we just pretend we've already had the same sub-discussion and it went the same way it always does on the following excuses/topics/hijacks/stalls.

1. "But is it racism if you use a racial slur when you're really, really mad at the person?"
2. "But is it racism if the person you use the racial slur against is in the wrong in the encounter?"
3. "Why do they get to use the word but we don't?"
 
JoeMorgue said:
Also can we just pretend we've already had the same sub-discussion and it went the same way it always does on the following excuses/topics/hijacks/stalls.

1. "But is it racism if you use a racial slur when you're really, really mad at the person?"
2. "But is it racism if the person you use the racial slur against is in the wrong in the encounter?"
3. "Why do they get to use the word but we don't?"
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About that last one, were I black I wouldn't use it, specifically for that reason.
 
Belz... said:
Nah he's in hell. He didn't have time to ask for Gunderscored's forgiveness.
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Wouldn't that be about a bitch if the afterlife were real?

God: How did you end up here?

Old Man: I was mad that my caramel roll wasn't heated and they took too long to get me my coffee. I called a black person the N-word.

God: Oh, uhm, well. I have some good news and some bad news.

Old Man: Ok, what's the bad news?

God: You're going to hell.

Old Man: What? What's the good news?

God: Everyone down there is burnt to a crisp so you'll never make the same mistake again ;) Toodles!
 
plague311 said:
We'll disagree there. It's way, WAY more plausible that the old man decided to "show racist fangs out of the blue". I'm not going to present a long, drawn out "for instance" because I don't feel like it; however, my anecdotal experience is that things like this happen frequently. Enough to where one of my favorite comedians, Bill Burr, has a stand-up bit about it happening. I've also been in a lot of nursing homes recently
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<respectful snip for sidebar>

When my grandfather, who was 50 yr+ married to my white grandmother, was in his last days deep in Alzheimer's in a nursing home, he developed a wicked crush on a Jamacian caregiver. He thought they were in the 1940's and was taking her out dancing. She always played along. It was the most adorable interplay you ever saw.
 
Thermal said:
<respectful snip for sidebar>

When my grandfather, who was 50 yr+ married to my white grandmother, was in his last days deep in Alzheimer's in a nursing home, he developed a wicked crush on a Jamacian caregiver. He thought they were in the 1940's and was taking her out dancing. She always played along. It was the most adorable interplay you ever saw.
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My mother-in-law wasn't racist a moment that I knew her up until she turned 73 and went into the nursing home. Now it's absolutely terrible. Nothing else has changed, she's just become a racist **** out of nowhere.
 
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