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Being a racist while having a soft skull

The Don said:
On what to you base this "sinking feeling" ?

Without evidence to support it all you have is the strawman argument that people who tolerate the use of physical violence in response to verbal violence lack honesty and courage and thus their argument can be dismissed.

You have constructed the straw man and are arguing against it.
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Still don't get it? I find their vascillation and weasel wording inherently cowardly, so it follows that I can expect no surge of bravery and conviction if we apply the same standard to them. But yet again, it's a feeling, not an assertion.

....edited to add......

I have some experience with left wing "agitators" who were willing to go toe to toe with right wing thugs back in my student protest days (to my shame I was not one of them, I'm too cowardly :o). It's only anecdotal but they were prepared to "take it" as well as "dishing it out".

I think think that they considered it an acceptable price for protecting their older and frailer comrades.
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Yeah, and I'm in this group. Dish it out and take it, and pay the piper if caught. But I'm not whining for police in threads where an alt-right bitch assaults someone against their words, either. Consistency, that. You play, you pay, but you're not exempt from the violent treatment you advocate.
 
Thermal said:
Still don't get it? I find their vascillation and weasel wording inherently cowardly, so it follows that I can expect no surge of bravery and conviction if we apply the same standard to them. But yet again, it's a feeling, not an assertion.
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No, we're asking you to demonstrate your claim. We can move on to things related to the claim once it's proven. Can you do this?
 
JoeMorgue said:
*Shrugs* Devil's Advocate, counter-narrative, apologist, secret admirer... I don't care. I've never put a label on it because I don't care and I don't want to argue about the label.

When the topic is racial in nature we can count on the same 4 or 5 people (and that's not even counting the one or two just cartoonishly over the top actual racists we have) to be argumentatively on the side of the racist narrative. Everytime. Everytime. Everytime.

Call it whatever you want, that's not the issue.
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You've lied about this many times, and been called on it. Yet straight outta Mein Kampf, you keep repeating the lie.

I am Arbery's biggest supporter on the Jogger thread. Much more than you Great White Saviors who demand a black man be timid. Unrelentingly in support of Botham Jean and advocating his murderer rot in a cel for life. Blasting the murderer Chauvin and cheering his conviction unwaveringly.

You. Are. A. Liar.
 
Thermal said:
You've lied about this many times, and been called on it.
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Calling someone on something doesn't mean what they said is wrong or dishonest.

I am Arbery's biggest supporter on the Jogger thread. Much more than you Great White Saviors who demand a black man be timid.
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"People who are saying this black person who was killed is a VICTIM are denying black people their agency! You can't treat black people as VICTIMS. I say they are free people, which includes the freedom to be killed by random strangers. So really, YOU're the real racist!"

Again, straight out of the racist playbook. Don't be surprised when you're lumped together with them.
 
Belz... said:
I know that this is the argument you're trying to make, Thermal. I understand it. My interpretation is that you are actually deliberately constructing an argument that you don't really believe in i.e. playing Devil's Advocate. If I'm wrong and you do believe it, then I refer you to Joe's post just above mine.

Are you going to support your claim now? Or did you hope I wouldn't notice the dodge?
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I do a DA once in a while, and qualify it as such clearly when I do. But I have a huge thorn in my side about media misrepresentation, and the gullible who lap it up *unskeptically*. It does get me into trouble, admitted.

Re: the post above yours? It's a dead, bald faced lie, that he repeats hoping to make it truth.

Also, not making a distinction between deliberate Devils Advocacy and simply having an Option C POV is just bone stupid.
 
"I only wanted to know what the dead black guy didn't run faster from the people who killed because I'm not racist!"

It is now 12:06, I will be laughing until at least 1.
 
Belz... said:
Calling someone on something doesn't mean what they said is wrong or dishonest.
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And calling people out on bald faced factual lying is not wrong or dishonest either. He is lying, and knows it, and has been challenged on it many times, which he invariably slither away from.

"People who are saying this black person who was killed is a VICTIM are denying black people their agency! You can't treat black people as VICTIMS. I say they are free people, which includes the freedom to be killed by random strangers. So really, YOU're the real racist!"

Again, straight out of the racist playbook. Don't be surprised when you're lumped together with them.
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If you consider my posts in context, you wouldn't always lump them in that wrong category.

This is a meta thing on this site. Pure binary thinking. "Hey, I've heard racists say something like that" does not mean the person is a racist. It usually means racists use a valid argument (then go on to abuse it for their agenda).

Good example: it gets brought up a lot that black people commit over half the homicides in the US, and At a rate like six times higher than whiteys. That's a statistically demonstrable statement of fact. A racist may then go on to argue that black people are therefore more violent. I would instead argue that socioeconomic factors are at play which skew the prevalence, but you, JM, and others would only hear the first part and go "aha!Racist! I knew it!" and that's all you would remember. Then you'd go on to lie about how I am against the black guy every time. You twist every post around to fit this faulty preconception you have. Pretending I was talking about Arbery running away, as a great example. Your flawed interpretation is not my responsibility. If you handwave away my clarifications, it's just a commitment you make to endorse your new narrative.
 
Thermal said:
And calling people out on bald faced factual lying is not wrong or dishonest either. He is lying, and knows it, and has been challenged on it many times, which he invariably slither away from.
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No, challenging him doesn't mean he's lying. See below.

If you consider my posts in context, you wouldn't always lump them in that wrong category.
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Then perhaps you should reconsider your rhetoric here. If people consistently lump you into that category you should try to find out why in a way that doesn't blame THEM. Right now that's what you're doing: accusing others of "lying" when they are simply drawing conclusions from a persistent behaviour of yours.
 
Belz... said:
Seems pretty accurate to me.
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Serious question, then: do you know what every time means? Can you show me arguing against the black guy every time?

I can quote 100% supportive postings for each and every dead black guy thread. Every ******* one. From first postings to last. Without compromise. How does that square with every time. Every time. Every time?
 
Thermal said:
Serious question, then: do you know what every time means?
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Hyperbole is not lying. Even if you could show exceptions it doesn't negate the rule. Etc.

If hyperbold were lying, this would be a lie:

I can quote 100% supportive postings for each and every dead black guy thread. Every ******* one. From first postings to last. Without compromise.
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Thermal said:
Serious question, then: do you know what every time means? Can you show me arguing against the black guy every time?

I can quote 100% supportive postings for each and every dead black guy thread. Every ******* one. From first postings to last. Without compromise. How does that square with every time. Every time. Every time?
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You're claiming that in every "while black" thread, or threads where a black person is murdered, you have supported said black person "from first posting to last"? I could quash that in a matter of seconds.
 
plague311 said:
You're claiming that in every "while black" thread, or threads where a black person is murdered, you have supported said black person "from first posting to last"? I could quash that in a matter of seconds.
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Don't do it. You're getting baited into "Define support."

I've cut to the chase. Regardless of intent or motivation we have the same people in every racial thread spending the bulk of their energy talking about potential reasons the racist side might be in the right or "not as wrong."
 
Thermal said:
As an aside, he's lying. I was advocating that Arbery was not cowering in fear of the fat racist rednecks, and appeared to be a strong and confident man. The others asserted he was a timid, fearful little rabbit (despite rushing the gunman like a boss when faced with the final showdown). You of all people should have been able to understand that.
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As much a lie as the one you objected to....
 
Belz... said:
No, challenging him doesn't mean he's lying. See below.



Then perhaps you should reconsider your rhetoric here. If people consistently lump you into that category you should try to find out why in a way that doesn't blame THEM. Right now that's what you're doing: accusing others of "lying" when they are simply drawing conclusions from a persistent behaviour of yours.
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I've lamented many, many times about just this. But it should be conducive to discussion to be vocal against the grain, no? Be a pretty damned boring place if no one did. So I put my own balls on the block and make the argument. Yes, I know that some posters will not get this. Quite a few, really. But I'm willing to take a hit over an honest discussion. Problem is, like with the liar above, it's not honest debate anymore.

And yes, he 100% knows he is lying. He knows from that Florida guy who shot an unarmed black man years ago right up through George Floyd, I have always 100% consistently backed the dead black man. Its been pointed out repeatedly, and challenged him to show one dead black man I haven't backed. He won't put up, because he can't. Yet he repeats the lies on every thread.

We're deep into rule 11/12 territory, so if you want to continue this, perhaps a different thread or PM?
 
Belz... said:
Hyperbole is not lying. Even if you could show exceptions it doesn't negate the rule. Etc.

If hyperbold were lying, this would be a lie:
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That's not hyperbole or lying. That is factual. I double checked.

You still confident? Avatar bet on that one?
 
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