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On the contrary, I find it very easy to argue that a society that condones and performs executions is not elevated by that. I judge society by how it treats its least great, not its greatest. Compassion and empathy are what elevates a society, not excision of undesirables.

I'd be happy with just life without the possibility of parole. However, the important thing is that Americans don't have to have the presence of their kind imposed on them and they can't get all uppity about their betters going out for a jog.
 
Watched a few minutes of the McMichaels' trial today (pretrial hate crime proceedings, IIUC). For reasons that defy my understanding and sensibilities the defense was allowed to call testimony from a store clerk who alleges that she witnessed Arbery shoplifting on at least eight occasions in her store (Love's or some such?)

Now I admit that I was only able to stomach a few minutes and I am not entirely sure what stage the proceeding is at- but wtf possible relevance could this incredibly prejudicial testimony have to the shooting?
 
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Watched a few minutes of the McMichaels' trial today (pretrial hate crime proceedings, IIUC). For reasons that defy my understanding and sensibilities the defense was allowed to call testimony from a store clerk who alleges that she witnessed Arbery shoplifting on at least eight occasions in her store (Love's or some such?)

Now I admit that I was only able to stomach a few minutes and I am not entirely sure what stage the proceeding is at- but wtf possible relevance could this incredibly prejudicial testimony have to the shooting?

I heard a bit about it. I think it was a hearing on the admissibility of evidence before the trial. At this stage, I don't think it's a cause for concern. The defense is going to throw some spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. It seems unlikely that it will be admitted. The Michaels boy, its spawn and the child porn lover wouldn't have known about it and the Georgia law requires direct knowledge of a crime committed in their presence.
 
What’s the Vegas odds on Zimmerman doing something violent again for the attention?

He already threw a wine bottle at his wife, posted near-nudes of his mistress, started a road rage incident, started a bar fight, tried to box rapper DMX, and threatened a detective on voice mail, as I recall.

Then hired Larry Klayman to try to sue a bunch of people for defamation. Been quiet since then, apparently.
 
I heard a bit about it. I think it was a hearing on the admissibility of evidence before the trial. At this stage, I don't think it's a cause for concern. The defense is going to throw some spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. It seems unlikely that it will be admitted. The Michaels boy, its spawn and the child porn lover wouldn't have known about it and the Georgia law requires direct knowledge of a crime committed in their presence.

I agree. None of that would have been argued before a jury likely to hear the case, although I find it very disturbing that a hearing regarding admissibility, the probative value or prejudicialness of evidence is being held in open court. Usually, such hearings are in judge's chambers, or closed court, with only the judge, opposing counsel and a stenographer present.

Otherwise, what is even the point of arguing these things if it is going to be public where potential jurors can see it?
 
He already threw a wine bottle at his wife, posted near-nudes of his mistress, started a road rage incident, started a bar fight, tried to box rapper DMX, and threatened a detective on voice mail, as I recall.

Then hired Larry Klayman to try to sue a bunch of people for defamation. Been quiet since then, apparently.

He also threatened her with a gun a few times. Did you know he auctioned the gun he used to kill Trayvon? That dude is a real piece of garbage.
 
He already threw a wine bottle at his wife, posted near-nudes of his mistress, started a road rage incident, started a bar fight, tried to box rapper DMX, and threatened a detective on voice mail, as I recall.

Then hired Larry Klayman to try to sue a bunch of people for defamation. Been quiet since then, apparently.

Zimmerman's kind always return to type. He got acquitted but waiting patiently in the tall grass has its rewards. He appears to be being pushed into a death spiral of domestic violence and dependency. Character assassination is bringing out his nature which I expect will lead to criminality and a final rendering of justice.
 
Zimmerman's kind always return to type. He got acquitted but waiting patiently in the tall grass has its rewards. He appears to be being pushed into a death spiral of domestic violence and dependency. Character assassination is bringing out his nature which I expect will lead to criminality and a final rendering of justice.
Meanwhile continuing to victimize others.
 
I have no ******* clue what relevance any of his previous files have on this case, but apparently the judge needs some time to think about it.

A judge on Thursday ordered at a pretrial hearing that Ahmaud Arbery’s personal mental health records be sealed but also ordered defense attorneys to provide further explanation as to why the records are relevant to the state murder case against the three men facing a fall trial in the slaying of the 25-year-old Black man.

This **** really ******* pisses me right off. He's black and white people killed him so apparently he's on trial? Other than being prejudicial, what possible means would this serve? Arbery certainly didn't appear to be crazy. He wasn't having a mental breakdown. He wasn't stealing anything, and even if he was the ******* miserable ***** that shot him wouldn't\didn't\couldn't have known anything about his history. Jesus Christ I hate the way this goes sometimes. I know it's not likely to get in, but just the fact that it's not shot down out of the gate is a disservice to justice.
 
I have no ******* clue what relevance any of his previous files have on this case, but apparently the judge needs some time to think about it.

I think that's a bit of an unfair characterization of what the judge is doing. The defense is arguing that they should be able to use whatever mental health records there are on Arbery as a defense. The judge sealed the records and told the defense that they need to come up with a good reason to unseal them. They have a right to a robust defense and the right to at least argue to have whatever evidence available for said defense. The judge can then decide whether or not their reasoning is sufficient. It seems like fairly standard procedure.

While I agree that they are likely just trying to paint Arbery in a bad light and it actually has nothing to do with validating what they did, they should have the right to at least make the argument that what they want is relevant and not just trying to put Arbery on trial.
 
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I think that's a bit of an unfair characterization of what the judge is doing. The defense is arguing that they should be able to use whatever mental health records there are on Arbery as a defense. The judge sealed the records and told the defense that they need to come up with a good reason to unseal them. They have a right to a robust defense and the right to at least argue to have whatever evidence available for said defense. The judge can then decide whether or not their reasoning is sufficient. It seems like fairly standard procedure.

While I agree that they are likely just trying to paint Arbery in a bad light and it actually has nothing to do with validating what they did, they should have the right to at least make the argument that what they want is relevant and not just trying to put Arbery on trial.

But what would his past mental health records have to do with anything, except to paint him as unhinged, so it was really all his fault?
 
I have no ******* clue what relevance any of his previous files have on this case, but apparently the judge needs some time to think about it.

This does seem pretty sleazy. I watched the initial arguments for this and skimmed though some of the witness testimony. Both side seemed pretty bad.

The prosecutor seemed to be hamming it up for the camera a the public. She was getting angry and was basically arguing the whole case rather than the specific issue of allowing this evidence.

The defense was weak. He argues this evidence should be allowed because it will inform the jury on the thoughts and intentions of Arbery and he says that is central to this case. But he doesn't say why. It is relevant...because it is relevant. The defense will get to explain the relevancy in writing. My guess is that the argument will go something like this:

The defendants were performing a lawful citizen's arrest because they had immediate knowledge that Arbery had committed the crime of trespassing. They believed that Arbery may be armed because when Travis previously confronted him he reached into his waistband like he had a gun. When Travis got out of the truck to confront Arbery he took the shotgun to protect himself in case Arbery had a gun. He did not point the gun at Arbery.

Arbery attacked Travis even tough he had no reasonable belief that such force was necessary. The reason Arbery attacked when he had no reason was because he had a mental illness that caused him to unreasonably attack people when he was confronted with committing a crime.

If the jury finds that this was a lawful citizen's arrest and that Travis did not provoke Arbery, then the question is whether Arbery's attack on Travis was reasonable. Arbery's mental health and and pattern of behavior of becoming aggressive when confronted are relevant because it would inform the jury on the reason for Arbery's unreasonable behavior.

I'm surprised the defense didn't make that argument in the hearing, but maybe they can pull that together for the written response. I think the judge would have a difficult time dismissing that argument in terms of relevance.

But even if the judge determines that it is relevant, the next step is to weigh the relevance to the prejudice of the victim's character. I watched the first few: carrying a gun into a high school basketball game, shoplifting from Walmart, parking a car at the back of a park. Only in the park car case did Arbery show any aggression, and that was only after he gave some lip to the cop because it was taking forever and the cop gave him some lip back. In none of those cases did Arbery physically attack a (uniformed) arresting officer, let alone try to take their gun away.

I don't see how the gun at the game case would inform the jury of Arbery's actions on the day he was killed. He ran away. When confronted with a cop pointing a gun at him and he gave up. That's the opposite of what the defense is trying to establish. And that creates a huge amount of prejudice. When Travis previously confronted Arbery he thought he was reaching for a gun in his waist band. That's why Travis got out with a shotgun. So...Travis must have been right because Arbery was previously convicted of carrying a gun in his waist band. And they must have been right about Arbery being the neighborhood thief because Arbery was previously convicted of theft. But the defendants didn't know any of that. The reasonableness of their actions were not based on any of that. The balance of prejudice to relevance seems to quite heavily favor inadmissibility.

Courts don't like putting private mental health records into evidence. From what I heard in the court proceeding, this is mostly a form Arbery filled out with an assessment based on that form and not actually meeting him. Reliability is in question. Relevance is very questionable unless the assessment is that he suffered from extreme delusions or had a propensity to unreasonably attacking anyone who confronted him. I doubt that is the case.

I expect the judge will rule most of this inadmissible. Maybe throw the defense of couple of bones on some basically irrelevant stuff to put off any successful appeals.
 
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But what would his past mental health records have to do with anything, except to paint him as unhinged, so it was really all his fault?
I have no idea. I don't know what sort of defense they intend to make. They have every right to put up a robust defense and make the argument that Arbery's mental health records are relevant. I agree that they likely aren't, but they have the right to at least make the argument that the records are relevant and let the judge decide on that.
 
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