Cryptocurrencies and the economy

[psionl0]

That's a nice attempt at a bait and switch but your problem is that the part you quoted is NOT about coding, but about the problems that BTC ostensibly is meant to solve.

Of course! You wanted to get into the mind of the creator so I quoted the part of the post detailing what problems he thought that a decentralized crypto-currency would solve.

What is suspicious about that? Do you think that he was plotting at that stage to rake in millions (implying that he knew the price would take off)? Do you think his real reason for a crypto currency was to bring about the collapse of the global financial system?

This is why I said that you could invent all sorts of CTs to explain his state of mind if you like but none is more probable than the actual words he used.

 

[psionl0]

imagine if keeping your car idling 24/7 produced solved Sudokus you could trade for heroin

You can trade solved sudokus for heroin?

That's an hilarious analogy. And using cars, which of course makes it a great analogy in my book.

Of course you would think so. As far as you are concerned, an analogy doesn't have to make sense as long as it is negative about bitcoin.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Of course! You wanted to get into the mind of the creator so I quoted the part of the post detailing what problems he thought that a decentralized crypto-currency would solve.

What is suspicious about that? Do you think that he was plotting at that stage to rake in millions (implying that he knew the price would take off)? Do you think his real reason for a crypto currency was to bring about the collapse of the global financial system?

This is why I said that you could invent all sorts of CTs to explain his state of mind if you like but none is more probable than the actual words he used.

I'm curious about how the culture of crypto has changed over the years. I'm trying to recall back to my college years when I knew a few tech types that were into it for various reasons. Even then, in the early 2010's, a lot of interest seemed to be motivated by money making and less motivated by the potential of bitcoin as an alternative, decentralized currency. The guy I knew that got chewed out for it was using the campus cloud computing lab in the wee hours of the morning to mine bitcoin that he immediately sold off for a small profit. It was basically beer money and he wasn't paying the power bills.



There's probably a good story to be told about how this techno-futurist dream went from ideological experiment to wasteful, pointless speculation vehicle, but I'm not even sure how you would begin.

 

[psionl0]

I'm curious about how the culture of crypto has changed over the years. I'm trying to recall back to my college years when I knew a few tech types that were into it for various reasons. Even then, in the early 2010's, a lot of interest seemed to be motivated by money making and less motivated by the potential of bitcoin as an alternative, decentralized currency. The guy I knew that got chewed out for it was using the campus cloud computing lab in the wee hours of the morning to mine bitcoin that he immediately sold off for a small profit. It was basically beer money and he wasn't paying the power bills.

Back then not a lot of energy was being devoted to mining and what was mined wasn't worth very much.

Like you say, beer money.

There's probably a good story to be told about how this techno-futurist dream went from ideological experiment to wasteful, pointless speculation vehicle, but I'm not even sure how you would begin.

More to the point, how would you have predicted that it would get to this stage?

 

[Belz...]

Of course! You wanted to get into the mind of the creator

I did no such thing. You imagined that. I simply said that I had no idea what the original idea was.

What is suspicious about that? Do you think that he was plotting at that stage to rake in millions (implying that he knew the price would take off)?

See, again you are under the deluded impression that if I have doubts on this man's story then I must be imagining a different scenario. You need to disabuse yourself of that silly notion.

Of course you would think so. As far as you are concerned, an analogy doesn't have to make sense as long as it is negative about bitcoin.

Again, that's your defensiveness talking. I have no need for BTC to be a bad thing. I just recognise its flaws, and enjoy car analogies. Meanwhile you've made no effort to discredit the analogy.

 

[psionl0]

I did no such thing. You imagined that.

No, you defended lomiller's unsubstantiated assertion that bitcoin was "clearly designed by people with radical left wing viewpoints".

I'll admit however that you may have not cared if the assertion was totally ridiculous.

See, again you are under the deluded impression that if I have doubts on this man's story then I must be imagining a different scenario. You need to disabuse yourself of that silly notion.

So you don't have a point after all. You just wanted to be contrary.

Meanwhile you've made no effort to discredit the analogy.

There is no need to break the analogy down and show how each aspect bears no relation to any aspect of bitcoin. It is too ridiculous to bother.

 

[Belz...]

No, you defended lomiller's unsubstantiated assertion that bitcoin was "clearly designed by people with radical left wing viewpoints".

Again, I did no such thing. I simply pointed out that we don't really know what BTC's actual initial objectives were.

You're insisting on assigning thoughts to other people, but you fail every time. Maybe you should stop trying and instead address what they actuall say.

So you don't have a point after all. You just wanted to be contrary

No, I'm pointing out that it's reasonable to doubt the man's assertion. That is literally a point! I'm not saying that he lied; only that his assertion may not be true.

There is no need to break the analogy down and show how each aspect bears no relation to any aspect of bitcoin. It is too ridiculous to bother.

Sounds like you just don't like the analogy.

 

[psionl0]

Sounds like you just don't like the analogy nonsense.

ftfy.

 

[Belz...]

ftfy.

As usual your fixes actually make things worse.

Made sense to me, and at least two other people. It's a humorous take on the crypto. It doesn't need to be entirely accurate to be funny. Like saying that "party X would present a pig in the election and it would win" isn't literally true.

So, now. Do you agree that you can rationally and reasonably doubt a particular claim without making an alternate claim yourself?

 

[psionl0]

As usual your fixes actually make things worse better.

ftfy.

So, now. Do you agree that you can rationally and reasonably doubt a particular claim without making an alternate claim yourself?

It is trivially true that any article can contain errors, inaccuracies or lies. If you are going to draw attention to this possibility for a specific article then you would need some reason to do so - either an alternate explanation or some sort of evidence that there is something wrong with the article. This applies doubly so if you suspect a hidden agenda.

 

[Belz...]

ftfy.

It is trivially true that any article can contain errors, inaccuracies or lies.

That isn't what I asked you or what my point is. Can you or can you not address it without trying to misdirect your readers?

 

[Dr. Keith]

In 2018, someone aptly described Bitcoin as this:



https://twitter.com/Theophite/status/1030225104234373121

With time passing, it still mostly holds up. Instead of a car idling, it's a car with the gas pedal held down with a brick. I suspect there's much less buying of heroin these days too, and more just pure speculation.

I like that analogy, but it is at least one tulip reference away from spot on.

 

[psionl0]

I like that analogy, but it is at least one tulip reference away from spot on.

It won't be long before somebody decides that the corona virus is a good analogy for bitcoin.

 

[Belz...]

It won't be long before somebody decides that the corona virus is a good analogy for bitcoin.

Anything can be a good analogy if you find the right points of reference.

The quality of an analogy is not dependant upon the differenced with the thing being paralleled, but the similarities.

 

[lomiller]

I didn't know that you knew Satoshi Nakamoto personally. When did he discuss his "radical left wing viewpoints" with you?

Why would that be a requirement? The first I saw of bitcoin was in 2008 while the banking crisis was still going on. Through 2009/10 is was being promoted and popularized along anti-corporation and anti-banking lines. I saw this first hand

 

[Belz...]

Why would that be a requirement?

The man thinks that if you doubt someone's claims, you have to have an alternative to present, or else you're just being a contrarian. Let's just say his knowledge of logical implications is lacking.

 

[lomiller]

I assume you mean Vladimir Lenin, not John Lennon, the late former Beatles frontman.

Your assumption is wrong.

Why is it that the leftist woke mobs, Antifa, and BLM all have the backing of the largest banks and corporations? If these people were skeptical, they might ask themselves why all the corporate virtue signaling?

Now you are just being silly. Civil rights activists have a long history of justifiable complaints about banks wrt issues like redlining. It's absurd to suggest they have suddenly changed into support for banks and corporations overnight.

Anti-fascists like antifa generally don't talk about economics all that much because fascism isn't tied to any particular economic policy. There are some general trends though, like close ties between government and hand picked corporations and industrialists willing to support fascist policies.

When they do enter the real of finance and business it's these type of relationships they have issue with. Banks were widely perceived as receiving this type of preferential treatment back in 2009\10 so there is usually a pretty big overlap between anti-fascism and opposition to corporations especially those involved in banking.

 

[Belz...]

I assume you mean Vladimir Lenin, not John Lennon, the late former Beatles frontman.

The Dude : It's all a god damn fake, man. It's like Lenin said: you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh, you know...
Donny : I am the walrus.
The Dude : You know, you'll uh, uh - well, you know what I'm trying' to say...
Donny : I am the walrus.
Walter : That ******* bitch!
The Dude : Oh yeah!
Donny : I am the walrus.
Walter : Shut the **** up, Donny! V.I. Lenin. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov!

 

[lomiller]

I admit I am not up on the history of who invented bitcoin, but if it was someone on the far left it quickly got hijacked by the Hard Line Libertarians.

Most libertarians are barely distinguishable from anarchy-capitalists when it comes to their views on business. This makes them almost indistinguishable from left wing anarchists on many issues. The main thing that seems to make them libertarians instead is their willingness to support right wing social restrictions.

 

[Meadmaker]

The flip side to whining about the electricity that is consumed by crypto mining, is to consider the deleterious economic effects on savers and the working poor that are the direct result of the debasement of fiat currencies all around the world.

Central banks prop up the financial assets of the rich by conjuring never-ending sums of money to bid up said assets, at the direct expense of people who save such currencies, or exchange their labor for them. Perhaps if central banks didn't use fiat currencies to exploit the poor, there wouldn't be such demand for crypto in the first place.

It seems like the cure is worse than the disease.

Everything wrong with fiat currencies is even more wrong with cryptocurrencies.