Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 27

[Norman Alexander]

Given that antifa’s most recent public activity was a postelection march to smash windows at the Democratic Party office in Portland while chanting ***** Joe Biden,” the group does not seem to have an especially strong investment in the legitimacy of the president’s election in Arizona.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...monitoring-cyber-ninjas-election-recount.html

Doubt sincerely that was genuine "Antifa". Sounds far more like some right-wing idjits dressed in black pyjamas pretending to be antifa, just to be provocative.

I sometimes wish the media would do more investigation at these events. Just because some dude is doing a take-it-to-the-man ninja impression with a black mask on and his hat backwards while he smashes windows and screams obscenities, does not automatically make him antifa. Prior evidence leans heavily against that being that case, and more towards the perp being a right-wing ****-stirring thug.

 

[Aridas]

Doubt sincerely that was genuine "Antifa". Sounds far more like some right-wing idjits dressed in black pyjamas pretending to be antifa, just to be provocative.

I sometimes wish the media would do more investigation at these events. Just because some dude is doing a take-it-to-the-man ninja impression with a black mask on and his hat backwards while he smashes windows and screams obscenities, does not automatically make him antifa. Prior evidence leans heavily against that being that case, and more towards the perp being a right-wing ****-stirring thug.

As a somewhat general rule, the more unruly parts of "Antifa" aren't actually allies with Democrats, though. Allies of circumstance, at times, sure, but not much more than that. I'd say that it's entirely plausible. With that said, though, the right wing idiot possibility is hard to rule out, of course.

 

[Segnosaur]

And the Trump legacy continues to divide the Republican party, as the GOP swirls down the toilet bowl...

From: BBC
US Senator Mitt Romney has been booed by Republicans at a convention in Utah. As Mr Romney took the stage at a state party convention in West Valley City, delegates shouted that he was a "communist" and a "traitor".

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

As a somewhat general rule, the more unruly parts of "Antifa" aren't actually allies with Democrats, though. Allies of circumstance, at times, sure, but not much more than that. I'd say that it's entirely plausible. With that said, though, the right wing idiot possibility is hard to rule out, of course.

We've had a group of anarchists here in the NW for many years, long before Dump.

From the link in the link (back in Jan):

Those who took to the streets on Wednesday were far-left, anti-police activists identifying themselves as anarchists, antifa and racial justice protesters, reports The New York Times.

Could be a few people identified themselves as AntiFa joined in, but this is not really an AntiFa group. Of course the news media doesn't give a rip if the group is mislabeled.

 

[Andy_Ross]

wrong thread

 

[Trebuchet]

Chieftain has a video on 'A Less-Awful Marmon-Herrington'



As he says "You will recall that I declared the Marmon-Herrington MTLS-1G14 to be the worst tank ever. Therefore, logic dictates that the CTL-3, sold to the US Marine Corps, cannot be as bad as the MTLS.

Test reports at Aberdeen Proving Ground were terrible.

You've posted in the wrong thread there, Cap!

 

[Aridas]

We've had a group of anarchists here in the NW for many years, long before Dump.

From the link in the link (back in Jan):Could be a few people identified themselves as AntiFa joined in, but this is not really an AntiFa group. Of course the news media doesn't give a rip if the group is mislabeled.

Ehh... Your post doesn't make much much of a point here in my eyes. But then, I suppose that I should point out a couple things of note. First, Antifa, as the very loose thing that it is, has been around for a long, long time. Second, there have been anarchist parts of Antifa for a long, long time. The Black Bloc Antifa are sorta famous for largely being anarchists, IIRC, and tend to be some of best publicized parts of those who identify as Antifa, for what should likely be obvious reasons.

So, when you try to make distinctions based on how long they've been around and that there are anarchists there, it doesn't really help you make much of a case with just that information.

 

[Bob001]

Apparently Trump thinks the scam recounts will put him back in the White House.
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-mar-a-lago-arizona-recount-white-house-035847717.html

 

[Andy_Ross]

You've posted in the wrong thread there, Cap!

oops

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Ehh... Your post doesn't make much much of a point here in my eyes. But then, I suppose that I should point out a couple things of note. First, Antifa, as the very loose thing that it is, has been around for a long, long time. Second, there have been anarchist parts of Antifa for a long, long time. The Black Bloc Antifa are sorta famous for largely being anarchists, IIRC, and tend to be some of best publicized parts of those who identify as Antifa, for what should likely be obvious reasons.

So, when you try to make distinctions based on how long they've been around and that there are anarchists there, it doesn't really help you make much of a case with just that information.

I've never heard of AntiFa until Dump. Whereas the anarchists appeared here in Seattle back during the WTO protests.

However it appears the protesters in black have multiple names so thank you for the correction.

 

[eerok]

Apparently Trump thinks the scam recounts will put him back in the White House.
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-mar-a-lago-arizona-recount-white-house-035847717.html

He's just whoring for more donations. (Though we can't forget he's also mentally ill.)

 

[Minoosh]

What is he going to do and say when even these klutzes can't find any voter fraud? And they won't find any because they will have to be schooled first on how the vote-counting process works, before they can actually do a viable recount. And then if they do a viable recount, there will be none.

I suspect, and hope, that this company does not know what it's doing - that even if the ninjas wanted to change the results, they wouldn't know how.

Incidentally, if they do a crap job at this and as a result believe they have found something "wrong", the federal election commission (whatever its name) will be forced to publicly spank the Ninjas' behinds when they show them how they got it wrong. It will be beyond embarrassing. It will be humiliating.

I don't know how the Federal Election Commission would be involved. If the donations are considered campaign contributions, the FEC might require an accounting, but it doesn't really concern itself with how states run their elections or decide to hire contractors for vote recounts. I could be wrong though.

ETA: The point man hired by the Arizona Senate says there's no deadline for the recount. This could go on for months.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I've never heard of AntiFa until Dump. Whereas the anarchists appeared here in Seattle back during the WTO protests.



However it appears the protesters in black have multiple names so thank you for the correction.

I interacted with many self-identified antifa during Occupy protests. I would say they were anarchists with updated marketing strategies. Up through roughly the Milo Yannapoulis thing at Berkeley, same opinion.

Post-Charlottesville, now antifa means something else. It can be frustrating as a person who adopted that term for a given grouping/behavioral model.

I'm comforted by how frustrating old antifa probably find this new, socially acceptable version to be.

That is my comfortable, white person view.

Even post-Charlottesville, there have been moments of serious friction between antifa and BLM, for example.

 

[KDLarsen]

What is he going to do and say when even these klutzes can't find any voter fraud? And they won't find any because they will have to be schooled first on how the vote-counting process works, before they can actually do a viable recount. And then if they do a viable recount, there will be none.

Incidentally, if they do a crap job at this and as a result believe they have found something "wrong", the federal election commission (whatever its name) will be forced to publicly spank the Ninjas' behinds when they show them how they got it wrong. It will be beyond embarrassing. It will be humiliating.

Simple, "they" got their hands on the result and changed it in Biden's favour. The trumpikins will lap it up dutifully and continue their quest to overturn Democracy and install their leader.

This graphic is apparently circulating in various far right SoMe groups and chats, purporting to be a screengrab from Bannon's War Room, showing results that has been found already (note: I have no idea what it's meant to represent).

[imgw=640]https://i.imgur.com/iBBJQUu.png[/imgw]​

 

[acbytesla]

I suspect, and hope, that this company does not know what it's doing - that even if the ninjas wanted to change the results, they wouldn't know how.

I don't know how the Federal Election Commission would be involved. If the donations are considered campaign contributions, the FEC might require an accounting, but it doesn't really concern itself with how states run their elections or decide to hire contractors for vote recounts. I could be wrong though.

ETA: The point man hired by the Arizona Senate says there's no deadline for the recount. This could go on for months.

It's not a recount....or an audit. It's a farce. The counters are all GOP crazies. The security carries badges but aren't cops. It is being streamed by OAN and other press is not allowed. There aren't non-partisan monitors. It is being overseen by a major Trump supporter with no election experience whatsoever. They are going to announce that the first vote count was faulty because that is what they want. I guarantee it.

 

[acbytesla]

Simple, "they" got their hands on the result and changed it in Biden's favour. The trumpikins will lap it up dutifully and continue their quest to overturn Democracy and install their leader.

This graphic is apparently circulating in various far right SoMe groups and chats, purporting to be a screengrab from Bannon's War Room, showing results that has been found already (note: I have no idea what it's meant to represent).

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/iBBJQUu.png[/qimg]​

It's part of the Trump big lie.

Take a look at Georgia. There were three counts overseen by election experts and monitors. Two machine counts and a manual count. The vote totals were essentially the same except Trump lost votes.

The Trump campaign paid for a recount in Wisconsin's most populous county which went heavily for Biden. The recount there was just a few votes different.

Now Arizona GOP state legislature authorized a partisan examination of the vote trying to continue to cast doubt over the election so they can justify draconian changes in the election process which will allow them to steal future elections.

 

[Aridas]

Simple, "they" got their hands on the result and changed it in Biden's favour. The trumpikins will lap it up dutifully and continue their quest to overturn Democracy and install their leader.

This graphic is apparently circulating in various far right SoMe groups and chats, purporting to be a screengrab from Bannon's War Room, showing results that has been found already (note: I have no idea what it's meant to represent).

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/iBBJQUu.png[/qimg]​

...

Interesting claims.

Either way, I feel like poking at a couple of them.

"Absentee Ballots cast from addresses other than where voters legally reside" - So... if they took it to a post office, that would count, before getting to the rest of how utterly uninspiring that number is.

"Out-of-state voters who voted in state" - So, for example, if an overseas military voter who is an Arizona citizen ended up back in Arizona before officially voting, that would be an example of this? Given the Republican sabotage of the Post Office, it would be no surprise for overseas military personnel (and other assorted citizens who spend a substantial amount of time elsewhere) to head back to their state if they could to vote, because they couldn't trust the mail to arrive on time.

Over-votes - As in, the voter incorrectly voted for more than they officially could in some contest on the ballot, not necessarily the Presidential one?

For a bunch of the others - Are Arizona's ballots not private? How, specifically, are they establishing a link between the voter and the cast ballot? That's with some added emphasis towards the non-citizen voters. If the GOP actually had viable means of determining if a vote was cast by a non-citizen voter, why the **** would it be only coming into play now? That's been something like a holy grail for Republican politicians for years with no hint of them actually having a viable way to actually back up or address their fearmongering, especially right after that last election. No need to even talk about the rabid partisanship on the Republican side, but Democrats have consistently shown that they're firmly on the side of "legal and fair" and would support correcting that problem.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...

Interesting claims.

Either way, I feel like poking at a couple of them.

"Absentee Ballots cast from addresses other than where voters legally reside" - So... if they took it to a post office, that would count, before getting to the rest of how utterly uninspiring that number is.

"Out-of-state voters who voted in state" - So, for example, if an overseas military voter who is an Arizona citizen ended up back in Arizona before officially voting, that would be an example of this? Given the Republican sabotage of the Post Office, it would be no surprise for overseas military personnel (and other assorted citizens who spend a substantial amount of time elsewhere) to head back to their state if they could to vote, because they couldn't trust the mail to arrive on time.

Over-votes - As in, the voter incorrectly voted for more than they officially could in some contest on the ballot, not necessarily the Presidential one?

For a bunch of the others - Are Arizona's ballots not private? How, specifically, are they establishing a link between the voter and the cast ballot? That's with some added emphasis towards the non-citizen voters. If the GOP actually had viable means of determining if a vote was cast by a non-citizen voter, why the **** would it be only coming into play now? That's been something like a holy grail for Republican politicians for years with no hint of them actually having a viable way to actually back up or address their fearmongering, especially right after that last election. No need to even talk about the rabid partisanship on the Republican side, but Democrats have consistently shown that they're firmly on the side of "legal and fair" and would support correcting that problem.

You are wasting your time. This is nothing new and none of it matters one iota. Factual claims are not necessary. This gives the idiots like the Pillow Guy talking points to spew making some people believe these were facts.

The claim: The Arizona recount has found 250,000 fraudulent votes

Arizona Senate confirms it hasn’t announced that finding
Ken Bennett, Arizona Senate liaison and former Arizona secretary of state, told USA TODAY claims that the audit found 250,000 fraudulent votes were “absolutely not” true.

People just make this **** up and send it flying around the Net.

 

[Aridas]

You are wasting your time. This is nothing new and none of it matters one iota. Factual claims are not necessary. This gives the idiots like the Pillow Guy talking points to spew making some people believe these were facts.

The claim: The Arizona recount has found 250,000 fraudulent votes

People just make this **** up and send it flying around the Net.

I may be wasting my time, sure. I was more poking at how... outright dumb just about all of those numbers are in the first place, though.

 

[Norman Alexander]

...

Interesting claims.

Either way, I feel like poking at a couple of them.

"Absentee Ballots cast from addresses other than where voters legally reside"

Umm... Isn't that the precise definition of what an absentee ballot actually is?? So how does that make them invalid ballots?

"Out-of-state voters who voted in state" - So, for example, if an overseas military voter who is an Arizona citizen ended up back in Arizona before officially voting, that would be an example of this? Given the Republican sabotage of the Post Office, it would be no surprise for overseas military personnel (and other assorted citizens who spend a substantial amount of time elsewhere) to head back to their state if they could to vote, because they couldn't trust the mail to arrive on time.

What exactly is an "out-of-state voter" in this case? Someone whose address does not end in "AZ"? How about US citizens who are currently residing overseas? Not just a few thousand military but the tens of thousands of Americans working in other countries who went to their consulate or embassy to vote. Yeah, let's call those invalid ballots too.

Over-votes - As in, the voter incorrectly voted for more than they officially could in some contest on the ballot, not necessarily the Presidential one?

For a bunch of the others - Are Arizona's ballots not private? How, specifically, are they establishing a link between the voter and the cast ballot? That's with some added emphasis towards the non-citizen voters. If the GOP actually had viable means of determining if a vote was cast by a non-citizen voter, why the **** would it be only coming into play now? That's been something like a holy grail for Republican politicians for years with no hint of them actually having a viable way to actually back up or address their fearmongering, especially right after that last election. No need to even talk about the rabid partisanship on the Republican side, but Democrats have consistently shown that they're firmly on the side of "legal and fair" and would support correcting that problem.

That is precisely the questions that has been wandering through my mind in all of this. All these "fake votes" absolutely rely on information that is not (should not be?) available from just the ballots themselves. So if the ballots cannot be tied to whoever cast them, how can any statistical analysis, fake or otherwise, be be made on the residence, citizenship or any other attributes of the voters who cast them? IOW, it looks like more made-up **** again from the Rabid Right.