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The Biden Presidency

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Craig4 said:
No one is talking about making anything a crime. The FDA is talking about telling manufacturers they can't add menthol to cigarettes. Adding menthol would be a civil violation enforced by the FDA on the manufacturer. No one is talking about adding menthol to the list of banned narcotics in schedule one or two (which would make owning the cigarettes a crime).
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People aren't going to be growing secret peppermint gardens so they can extract the peppermint oil, freeze it, and filter out the menthol crystals for sale on the black market.
There won't be people buying large quantities of the many over the counter medical products that use menthol in order to make illicit menthol cigarettes, like using decongestant to make meth.

I didn't read the articles about the proposed ban, so I don't know if it's mentioned, but in looking at the menthol article on Wikipedia, I saw that studies show that "menthol also increases nicotine receptor density, increasing the addictive potential of tobacco products". It's not just a flavoring to make cigarettes more appealing, its properties make them more addictive.
 
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Armitage72 said:
People aren't going to be growing secret peppermint gardens so they can extract the peppermint oil, freeze it, and filter out the menthol crystals for sale on the black market.
There won't be people buying large quantities of the many over the counter medical products that use menthol in order to make illicit menthol cigarettes, like using decongestant to make meth.

I didn't read the articles about the proposed ban, so I don't know if it's mentioned, but in looking at the menthol article on Wikipedia, I saw that studies show that "menthol also increases nicotine receptor density, increasing the addictive potential of tobacco products". It's not just a flavoring to make cigarettes more appealing, its properties make them more addictive.
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They will probably just have menthol cigarettes shipped in and then sell them loose.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Eric Garner was killed by the NYPD when stopped for selling black market cigarettes. Let's not be naive. Prohibition means enforcement by the armed agents of the state.
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I have heard that narrative being questioned and it was just the cops didn't like him standing there. You think they couldn't have found something else to be suspicious about. Cops could easily have made something else up.
 
Armitage72 said:
People aren't going to be growing secret peppermint gardens so they can extract the peppermint oil, freeze it, and filter out the menthol crystals for sale on the black market.
There won't be people buying large quantities of the many over the counter medical products that use menthol in order to make illicit menthol cigarettes, like using decongestant to make meth.

I didn't read the articles about the proposed ban, so I don't know if it's mentioned, but in looking at the menthol article on Wikipedia, I saw that studies show that "menthol also increases nicotine receptor density, increasing the addictive potential of tobacco products". It's not just a flavoring to make cigarettes more appealing, its properties make them more addictive.
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Exactly it is not going to be illegal to add menthol to your own cigarettes.
 
ponderingturtle said:
I have heard that narrative being questioned and it was just the cops didn't like him standing there. You think they couldn't have found something else to be suspicious about. Cops could easily have made something else up.
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I don't think it is necessary to respond to a claim you said you heard.
 
smartcooky said:
Are you really implying that Biden is placing the importance of dealing with menthol cigarettes above dealing with the pandemic, really? Because it sure seems like you are.
....
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Relax, that's just theprestige showing us how he can stumble with both feet.
 
theprestige said:
.

I for one am relieved to learn that Joe Biden knows that the great scourge facing the nation today isn't a global pandemic. It isn't foreign interference in democratic elections. It's... Menthol cigarettes.

I guess the tobacco lobby is behind on its payments.
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What is it with the right? They think a President is limited to doing one thing at a time?

Maybe some people can't chew gum and walk at the same time, so they think everyone can't
 
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So what happens if you show a Democrat a menthol flavored joint? Do their heads just explode at the paradox of it all?

Is the goddamn "No pot's really a drug, it's for glaucoma that every 20 year old in a Bob Marley T-shirt has" demographic that big?
 
JoeMorgue said:
So what happens if you show a Democrat a menthol flavored joint? Do their heads just explode at the paradox of it all?

Is the goddamn "No pot's really a drug, it's for glaucoma that every 20 year old in a Bob Marley T-shirt has" demographic that big?
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Menthol appears to increase the addictive properties of nicotine, and marijuana doesn't contain nicotine, so menthol joints shouldn't be a problem.
 
acbytesla said:
What is it with the right? They think a President is limited to doing one thing at a time?

Maybe some people can't chew gum and walk at the same time, so they think everyone can't
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Isn't that how Republicans govern? One thing at a time? I'm glad Republicans are like that, imagine how much more damage they could've done to the country.
 
smartcooky said:
Indeed.

In this country, we have managed to dramatically reduce the number of smokers in our communities from 30%+ of the population in the mid-1980s, to just 11% today, and that has been achieved through a number of government initiatives...

1. No tobacco product or company advertising allowed in any media.

2. No tobacco product or company advertising in shops, even ones selling those products. Instant fine $1000, additional transgressions lead to prosecution and fines up to $10000.

3. No tobacco product or company sponsorship allowed for any sports, sporting events, competitions, festivals or any other events of any kind.

4. Cigarettes and tobacco products must be hidden from view. Instant fine $1000, additional transgressions lead to prosecution and fines up to $10000.

5. Cigarettes and tobacco products must not be sold to persons under the age of 18, purchasers must provide ID. The Ministry of Health regularly uses bait purchasers to test if they will sell to under 18s. Instant fine $1000, additional transgressions lead to prosecution and fines up to $10000.

6. All workplaces, clubs, bars and restaurants are no smoking indoors.

7. Huge, punitive taxes on tobacco products, pushing the price of a pack of 20 to about $33.00

8. Large, graphic health warnings on packets.

And a whole lot more restrictions are in the pipeline for this year

9. All sellers of cigarettes and other tobacco products to be licenced

10. Restrict sales of smoked tobacco products to a limited number of specific store types (so no sales in corner dairies, pubs, bars, supermarkets, mass market stores or grocery stores) Sales will be pretty much limited to licensed tobacconists.

11. Force reduction of nicotine levels in smoked tobacco products to very low, in order to make it harder to become addicted.

12. Prohibit filters in smoked tobacco products.

13. Prohibit innovations aimed at increasing the appeal and addictiveness of smoked tobacco products.

If you're gonna all draconian, don't **** around with half-measures, go the full Monty!!
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I am very anti smoking,k but that is just bit too big brother for my taste.
Since you approve, of these draconsian approaches, I see that idea of invidual freedom does not hold an important place in your universe.
Why stop with tobacco? Why not add alcohol to the list to be banned.
 
theprestige said:
Black people, being too stupid and venal to see to their own interests, need a white savior to protect them from the white devil.

I for one am relieved to learn that Joe Biden knows that the great scourge facing the nation today isn't a global pandemic. It isn't foreign interference in democratic elections. It's... Menthol cigarettes.

I guess the tobacco lobby is behind on its payments.
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yes, because the President can only deal with one thing at a time!
 
xjx388 said:
Right. It’s another “Think of the children!” argument now rolled into the “Black Lives Matter” movement.

Tobacco companies profit off the sales of their products. Their products are addictive and harmful. They appeal to kids. But tobacco products aren’t in any danger of being made illegal like other addictive and harmful intoxicants. I think it is stupid to ban a flavor of a legal product simply because kids will want it and minorities are disproportionately affected.

I’m not a smoker and I abhor the stuff, but plain cigarettes are not really all that less appealing to smokers. You think kids aren’t gonna just smoke Marlboro Reds? You think black smokers will just give up smoking because they can’t get Kools?

Unless tobacco is banned entirely, there will be a certain portion of the population who chooses to smoke. It’s not going to be significantly less because they take away a flavor.

I asked before: why isn’t anyone seriously suggesting that flavored alcoholic beverages be banned? They appeal to kids and minorities too. Alcohol is addictive along with arguably greater societal and health impacts too.

It’s just silly and won’t make a lick of difference in teen/black smoking. But it’s a form of politicking the Dems are good at: ineffective, feel-good, “look, we did something!” policies.

Bottom line: Adults who smoke want flavored products. Why shouldn’t they have them? Kids? Make selling a pack of cigs to anyone under 21 a felony. Done.
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At least one person here advocates pretty much that.
I am violently anti smoking;lf someone lights up in my presence I ask them to stop.
But going Bie Brother wil not solve the problem.
We tried that once with alcohol and it did not work very well.
 
smartcooky said:
Indeed.

In this country, we have managed to dramatically reduce the number of smokers in our communities from 30%+ of the population in the mid-1980s, to just 11% today, and that has been achieved through a number of government initiatives...

1. No tobacco product or company advertising allowed in any media.

2. No tobacco product or company advertising in shops, even ones selling those products. Instant fine $1000, additional transgressions lead to prosecution and fines up to $10000.

3. No tobacco product or company sponsorship allowed for any sports, sporting events, competitions, festivals or any other events of any kind.

4. Cigarettes and tobacco products must be hidden from view. Instant fine $1000, additional transgressions lead to prosecution and fines up to $10000.

5. Cigarettes and tobacco products must not be sold to persons under the age of 18, purchasers must provide ID. The Ministry of Health regularly uses bait purchasers to test if they will sell to under 18s. Instant fine $1000, additional transgressions lead to prosecution and fines up to $10000.

6. All workplaces, clubs, bars and restaurants are no smoking indoors.

7. Huge, punitive taxes on tobacco products, pushing the price of a pack of 20 to about $33.00

8. Large, graphic health warnings on packets.

And a whole lot more restrictions are in the pipeline for this year

9. All sellers of cigarettes and other tobacco products to be licenced

10. Restrict sales of smoked tobacco products to a limited number of specific store types (so no sales in corner dairies, pubs, bars, supermarkets, mass market stores or grocery stores) Sales will be pretty much limited to licensed tobacconists.

11. Force reduction of nicotine levels in smoked tobacco products to very low, in order to make it harder to become addicted.

12. Prohibit filters in smoked tobacco products.

13. Prohibit innovations aimed at increasing the appeal and addictiveness of smoked tobacco products.

If you're gonna all draconian, don't **** around with half-measures, go the full Monty!!
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same as the UK but cigarettes have to be sold from standard black boxes with no company logo or colours on it. Just a brand name and health warning.
 
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