Cancel culture IRL

[Dr. Keith]

So far as I can tell, most of them did not even stop to ask whether there was a non-racist explanation for those tweets.

I'm trying to figure out if you are expecting them to ask you personally or if it fits your criteria for them to stop to ask someone else, such as their roommate or cat.

Does such an approach strike you as due consideration?

I leave the measure of what is due to the person making the claim. How much consideration would you suggest in this situation to be "due" and how is that determined?

They seem to have satisfied themselves. Is there some obvious indication that they regret their posts as overly hasty or bemoan that in hindsight their consideration was deficient?

 

[d4m10n]

How much consideration would you suggest in this situation to be "due" and how is that determined?

I've already provided examples of the sort of questions one ought to ask oneself before joining a pile-on. Scroll back up.

How can you tell that?

Because the cancelers assumed anti-Asian racism was in play, when there is an obvious alternative explanation.

 

[dudalb]

So racsism and bigotry do not exist in this best of all possible worlds.
Voltaire would have loved the who Anti cancel culture/woke movement. They would have made him such lovely targets.Wonderful example of denying reality and projection.

 

[dudalb]

And shaming is not always bad. People should be "shamed" whne they display bigotry.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I've already provided examples of the sort of questions one ought to ask oneself before joining a pile-on. Scroll back up.

And the evidence that none of them asked these sorts of questions but maybe just came to a different conclusion?

Or is it possible they asked different questions and came to their own conclusion and determined that this was all the diligence due in this particular situation?

 

[Cavemonster]

Because the cancelers assumed anti-Asian racism was in play, when there is an obvious alternative explanation.

In critical thinking, it's useful to distinguish what you observe directly from what you infer from that observation. What you've written here is an inference. What is the direct observation that leads you to this conclusion?

 

[dirtywick]

Because the cancelers assumed anti-Asian racism was in play, when there is an obvious alternative explanation.

That doesn’t mean they didn’t stop to ask if there was an alternative explanation or even that the alternative explanation explanation is correct. It sounds like you’re saying they didn’t think about it enough because they didn’t come to the conclusion you thought they should.

 

[Stout]

That doesn’t mean they didn’t stop to ask if there was an alternative explanation or even that the alternative explanation explanation is correct. It sounds like you’re saying they didn’t think about it enough because they didn’t come to the conclusion you thought they should.

You're giving the Twitter mob way too much credit here. This whole Lindsay Ellis thing was fueled by a bunch of neurotic control freaks looking for reason, any reason to call someone a racist. Read what she actually said.

 

[dirtywick]

You're giving the Twitter mob way too much credit here. This whole Lindsay Ellis thing was fueled by a bunch of neurotic control freaks looking for reason, any reason to call someone a racist. Read what she actually said.

I’m only vaguely aware of who Lindsay Ellis is. I know she was a YouTube movie reviewer, who incidentally didn’t have a problem calling out a bunch of people in that channel awesome document, and now does the same thing in a more scholarly way. I don’t watch her videos. So I don’t really think I should be making judgement calls on drama in a community I’m not a part of. I definitely haven’t given it enough thought as was suggested. Have any of us? Do you watch her videos? Know what kind of person she is?

That said, no I don’t believe that tweet was racist. I think there’s plenty of people waiting on the lurch for her to say anything and twist it in the worst way and try to cause some outrage. Why do they do that? Probably something she said in a video. Theres people they don’t like her as a person and want her deplatformed. She also has plenty of fans ready to defend her too.

People got mad on the internet and she stayed off Twitter for a week and made a video talking about it. That’s what she does for a living and that’s the game.

But you don’t think there’s also people genuinely offended by her tweet? I think there are and they have every right to listen to what she said and think what they want. And I couldn’t tell you who is faking it and who isn’t. But that’s the broader point here, you don’t know how much thought anyone gave any given Twitter incident, especially if your only way of determining that is whether or not they agree with your conclusion.

 

[Stout]

You don't need to spend a ton of time on Lindsay Ellis, there's no need to like her or dislike her but the crux of the issue is the comparison she made between two cartoons, a comparison that had been made elsewhere previously and she became the Twitter villain of the day.

Sure, maybe some people were offended. They were probably looking to be offended at something, anything and simply landed on Ellis as a reason to howl at the moon.

I think we can safely file this in the failed cancellations folder as she appears to be still going strong and news of her Twitter experience is rapidly falling down the page when you search her name.

 

[dirtywick]

It seems like a stretch to call every piece of Twitter drama cancellation anyway.

 

[Stout]

It seems like a stretch to call every piece of Twitter drama cancellation anyway.

Agreed, it's only when that drama makes the news that it gets any attention.

 

[d4m10n]

In critical thinking, it's useful to distinguish what you observe directly from what you infer from that observation. What you've written here is an inference. What is the direct observation that leads you to this conclusion?

Outside of sci-fi/fantasy, how could anyone enjoy direct observation of the questions people ask themselves inside their own minds? I thought we all knew this was about observation and inference.

And the evidence that none of them asked these sorts of questions but maybe just came to a different conclusion?

Inferences of anti-Asian animus were clearly made in haste, otherwise the cancelers would've realized it was entirely plausible Ellis was concerned solely with unoriginality in a specific theatrical subgenre (which exists on both sides on the Pacific, FWIW). Given the gravity and seriousness of racism, the only other explanation I can see here is bad faith.

 

[Cavemonster]

Outside of sci-fi/fantasy, how could anyone enjoy direct observation of the questions people ask themselves inside their own minds? I thought we all knew this was about observation and inference.
.

I am asking what observations lead to your inference and why.
You keep simply stating your inference inference when asked for your observation and reasoning.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Inferences of anti-Asian animus were clearly made in haste, otherwise the cancelers would've realized it was entirely plausible Ellis was concerned solely with unoriginality in a specific theatrical subgenre (which exists on both sides on the Pacific, FWIW). Given the gravity and seriousness of racism, the only other explanation I can see here is bad faith.

So it is down to what dirtywick said: you’re saying they didn’t think about it enough because they didn’t come to the conclusion you thought they should.

 

[d4m10n]

So it is down to what dirtywick said: you’re saying they didn’t think about it enough because they didn’t come to the conclusion you thought they should.

There is also the matter of timing. It would appear the cancelers went hard at the racist narrative pretty much ASAP, without bothering to research or consider other possibilities. This strikes me as moral grandstanding at worst, hasty inference at best.

 

[Dr. Keith]

There is also the matter of timing. It would appear the cancelers went hard at the racist narrative pretty much ASAP, without bothering to research or consider other possibilities. This strikes me as moral grandstanding at worst, hasty inference at best.

How much time would have been enough time in this particular case? Five minutes, ten? What if their records show that they spent 15 minutes researching and considering other possibilities, would that have been enough?

How much time did you put into that post you just made accusing them of moral grandstanding?

 

[Armitage72]

The problem with Lindsay Ellis’s stance is the phrase “is this the tweet that will sink me?”
If you think that a tweet might “sink” you, there is a simple solution: don’t post it.
Same as this humble forum; if you think something is inappropriate and chose to post it you risk being told to take a time-out.

It's like the times I've heard my mother say "I know this is a terrible thing to say, but ... (insert something extremely racist or otherwise offensive)."

If you know it's terrible, maybe you shouldn't say it. Saying that you know it's terrible doesn't absolve you from saying it.

 

[Dr. Keith]

It's like the times I've heard my mother say "I know this is a terrible thing to say, but ... (insert something extremely racist or otherwise offensive)."

If you know it's terrible, maybe you shouldn't say it. Saying that you know it's terrible doesn't absolve you from saying it.

The major difference being that your mother isn't intentionally risking her career by saying these things.

These are more like suicide by cop than anything else.

 

[d4m10n]

How much time would have been enough time in this particular case?

Hard to say. Personally, I would not accuse anyone of propagating the idea that Asian culture and/or Asian people are somehow inferior to others unless I could find some solid evidence that they have actually done so.

These folks seem much less restrained:

https://twitter.com/azrieIism/status/1375509428661678082

https://twitter.com/irisilia_/status/1375513150439649287

https://twitter.com/JustinePWinans/status/1375503469847531520

https://twitter.com/the_grimdragon/status/1375496774807252992

https://twitter.com/dvidsilva/status/1375507996944429058

I'm not getting the sense that any of them stopped to ask whether Lindsay might simply have been unimpressed with a couple of creative works, without stopping to consider the ethnic composition of their respective creative teams.

How much time did you put into that post you just made accusing them of moral grandstanding?

First, I read an entire book on moral grandstanding. Second, I watched the Lindsay Ellis cancellation roll out over the course of a few days. Finally, I thought about how the tweets appear to relate to the book for several weeks. After all that, though, I still took the time to mention a distinct possibility other than moral grandstanding and made an effort to keep an open mind about further possibilities.