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The behaviour of US police officers

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I don't know what the answer is. Tghe police need reforming, but you can't shut down the police in the meantime like some are suggesting. You wouild get vigilante rule, and that would be even worse.
 
dudalb said:
SO how the hell are the police supposed to stop a mob? Just stand back and let them do what they want to do?
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Pretty much. Using brute force to subdue civil unrest doesn't work.

They can try to redirect it or protect selected targets but using force to try to shut down unrest leads to atrocity and autocracy.
 
Suddenly said:
Pretty much. Using brute force to subdue civil unrest doesn't work.

They can try to redirect it or protect selected targets but using force to try to shut down unrest leads to atrocity and autocracy.
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So just lets mobs loot and burn and don't try to stop them.
I think what you advocate will lead to anarchy.But maybe that what you want.
A lot of silliness on the left side of the political specturm.
 
This thread has become a reminder that there is a lot of stupidity on the political left.
The idea just6 letting burning and looting go on with no attempt to stop it is as stupid as anything the Trumpers have come up with.You can talk about the extent of force that should be used,but IMHO the uss of non lethal force to stop rioting is completly justiffied.
And the let them riot approach is just not practical. You will soon get vigilante action in response.
I shake my head at how ideology of any stripe, carried to exterems makes some otherwise intelligent people just plain stupid.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Wonder what the US coverage of a scene like this would be if it were occurring overseas, especially if it were in a country that we see as adversarial.

Cops and soldiers fire on protest crowds from inside armored vehicles and behind barricades. Cop/soldier (hard to tell the difference at this point) is seen pointing a M4 carbine into the crowd while his partner fires a beanbag shotgun through the fence.

https://twitter.com/daviss/status/1382162743235579904
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It's a sad state of affairs in the US, my friend. You have my sympathies.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Joe's arguing the concept is yet another thing that, noble as it may be in theory, is counterproductive to the point of being destructive in a post-fact world where every other argument is an intentionally obtuse and/or contrarian performance piece.
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Ok but what would be your solution? If you build a house, and it collapsed, killing someone, should you be accused of murder? Presumably you still think intent has an important role to play, as you hint later in your post.

So what's the correct solution? I mean, I get what you're saying as a general idea but I have no idea how it would work in practice; in the specifics.

Yes I am, no denying, much more "results" based in my morality then most people.
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Usually, so am I, but there's a lot of case-by-case going on in my brain.

ETA: Hit "Post" too soon
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Bwa ha ha ha!!! You FOOOoooL!!!! :D
 
lomiller said:
Instead of viewing themselves as being there to help and serve the community they act as though they are at war with those communists and see their role as being one of enforcing obedience from those communities. Furthermore they are being trained either though the culture of their department, and in some cases explicit course material. As mentioned up thread, even military forces experienced in peacekeeping in hostile countries don't allow their troops to point weapons at people simply because "they could be dangerous" but in most cases US police are explicitly taught to do just this.
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Pretty sure that's a typo but it sounds just about right regardless.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
Yeah, but she is a cop and it makes a legitimate difference. Taking two business days to arrive at charge is not "late" and is not something to be outraged about.
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As much as I disagree with Turkey's stance on police in general, I understand his lack of giving the benefit of the doubt, after so many police wrongdoers in the past got away scott free.
 
Kim Potter, the police officer who killed Daunte Wright was involved in the 2019 shooting of Kobe Heisler, an autistic man.

Potter instructed 2 officers involved "to exit the residence, get into separate squad cars, turn off their body worn cameras, & to not talk to each other".

Kobe Dimock-Heisler was an autistic black man.

The “police call” to the home had been cancelled & the cops showed up anyway.

The man was shot & killed in front of his grandmother.
 
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dudalb said:
I don't know what the answer is. Tghe police need reforming, but you can't shut down the police in the meantime like some are suggesting. You wouild get vigilante rule, and that would be even worse.
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Not if we use police robots.... damn, where are my police robots? They were promised to me decades ago.
 
dudalb said:
This thread has become a reminder that there is a lot of stupidity on the political left.
The idea just6 letting burning and looting go on with no attempt to stop it is as stupid as anything the Trumpers have come up with.You can talk about the extent of force that should be used,but IMHO the uss of non lethal force to stop rioting is completly justiffied.
And the let them riot approach is just not practical. You will soon get vigilante action in response.
I shake my head at how ideology of any stripe, carried to exterems makes some otherwise intelligent people just plain stupid.
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So, Sacramento has never won a title?
 
dudalb said:
I don't know what the answer is. Tghe police need reforming, but you can't shut down the police in the meantime like some are suggesting. You wouild get vigilante rule, and that would be even worse.
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When there is no viable way to end oppression though civil discourse doesn't it mean you are approaching the point were revolution is justified?
 
I'm so sick of the goddamn parasitic meta-argument about proper response hanging over this entire discussion.

Here, let me make it simple. A society has a right to go "This behavior is no longer acceptable." At that point the moral question of how far we take it is on the people COMMITING THE UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR not the people demanding the behavior stop.

What the proper response to Law Enforcement's at this point bafflingly total inability to not accidently, on purpose, or accidently on purpose kill black people while arresting them is whatever it takes to make them stop doing that and that's a question you need to be asking THEM, not us.

How far that needs to go is on them, not on us.

If they stop doing it after training, then training is the proper response.
If they stop doing it after punishment, then punishments is the proper response.
If they stop doing it after protests, then protests is the proper response.
If they stop doing it after riots, then riots are the proper response.
If they stop doing it after goddamn SuburbanTurkey finally gets to watch the his dreamed "I'm still not over the fact that I missed the 60s" uprising from the safety of his couch, that is the proper response.
 
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One week in police unions:

https://twitter.com/hamiltonnolan/status/1382171408671854595

Headlines summarized:

- Fresno union slams investigation that led to firing of cop associated with Proud Boys
- Vallejo police union president fired for sending threats to journalist
- Police union president "accidentally" shoots and kills unarmed man
- Boston PD kept secret that union president was serial child molester for decades.

Cloaking themselves in glory!
 
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