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Jogging in Georgia while black.

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SuburbanTurkey said:
He ran straight into an armed skirmish line, perhaps because he was being chased by a truck that had already struck his body hard enough to transfer clothing fibers and leave a dent.
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It was an armed skirmish line of...one guy. No other guns were out at that point. And again, I'm not convinced he was run down. I'd rather like to know and see what kind of dent we are talking about, and where on the vehicle. Remember, even Snitchin' Roddy says Arbery was trying to get in the truck, and does not say he was hit.

I don't know what wareyin meant, I'm just trying to nail down what exactly you meant by Arbery being aggressive. He was chased into a trap, and even in the final moments, took evasive steps until a man armed and brandishing a shotgun placed him in a no-win situation with a split second to make a decision.

I would describe Arbey's decision to charge his assailant as desperate, not aggressive.
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Aggressive is not the best word. I think that right up to the end, he was thinking "dafuq is up with these redneck ********", and didn't expect to be shot, much like Kyle Rittenhouse's victims. I think it at least plausible that he thought they were bluffing.

And yet again, for the nitwit contingent of other posters (not you ST), it changes nothing about the murderers culpability.
 
Thermal said:
It was an armed skirmish line of...one guy. No other guns were out at that point. And again, I'm not convinced he was run down. I'd rather like to know and see what kind of dent we are talking about, and where on the vehicle. Remember, even Snitchin' Roddy says Arbery was trying to get in the truck, and does not say he was hit.
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Roddy learned to clam up, luckily much too late, when it started to become clear he went from witness to participant in a felony murder.

I give physical evidence, such as evidence of a collision with Arbery's body, far more weight than Roddy's self-exonerating explanations.
 
Also, we need to put to bed two completely false notions... both are compete bull-****

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...allegedly-entered-shooting-might-not-n1205191


1. That there were probems at that site with thefts, that were the reason the security cameras were installed

"In the months before February, a motion-activated camera had captured videos of someone inside the construction site a handful of times, Graddy said. The first time, English called a non-emergency police number and reported the unauthorized entry, Graddy said. He never used the word 'burglary,'" she said, adding that nothing has ever been stolen from or damaged at the property. "My client did not want people to come on to the property because it's just not safe."
"Ahmaud did not take anything from the construction site," the family's lawyers said in a statement. "He did not cause any damage to the property. He remained for a brief period of time and was not instructed by anyone to leave but rather left on his own accord to continue his jog. Ahmaud's actions at this empty home under construction were in no way a felony under Georgia law."

2. The McMichaels were asked by the owner to watch out for the place

English would visit the construction site regularly to check on the progress of the home. Graddy said that once, about two weeks ago, Gregory McMichael approached English at the site and inquired about obtaining surveillance videos. She said English did not entertain Gregory McMichael. "My clients were not part of what the McMichaels told themselves to do," Graddy said.

"If the McMichaels are going to justify what they did, they are going to have to look elsewhere for help," she said

English never shared any of this information with the McMichaels, whom he did not even know, according to his attorney.

********

Its clear.

1. Site owner Larry English did not install security cameras because there were problems with intruders stealing stuff... he installed them to warn off intruders for their own safety (building sites contain hazards)

2. Site Owner Larry English did not ask the McMichaels, or anyone else to watch the place. In fact, he refused Greg McMichael's request to supply surveaillance camera footage.


Two things worth noting...

The fact that Greg McMichael asked Larry English for surveillance camera footage is very, very suspicious, and shows intent on the part of the McMichaels. Their chase down of Arbery looks like it was premeditated - and they were just waiting for an opportunity to confront him.

Also, the fact that English has received death threats since the McMichaels were arrested. I guess its fairly obvious why... Larry is a white guy who has gone against a local white guy, and cast his sympathies in with the Black victim. In the eye of many a good ol' boy, that will make him a race traitor.
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Roddy learned to clam up, luckily much too late, when it started to become clear he went from witness to participant in a felony murder.

I give physical evidence, such as evidence of a collision with Arbery's body, far more weight than Roddy's self-exonerating explanations.
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And what is that physical evidence? Have we seen it to evaluate the kind of impact it suggests?

I'll also note you are happy to take Roddy saying ******* ****** as gospel, though. But him saying Arbery was trying to get in the truck makes him not credible? There's a term for that. CB, and I don't mean the radio.
 
Thermal said:
And what is that physical evidence? Have we seen it to evaluate the kind of impact it suggests?

I'll also note you are happy to take Roddy saying ******* ****** as gospel, though. But him saying Arbery was trying to get in the truck makes him not credible? There's a term for that. CB, and I don't mean the radio.
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Well, they have all the social media posts to lean back on to verify that such outbursts of racism were common for our killers.

The posts contained information from racial groups and posts about vigilanteism, as well as a "violent video" called "Coon on a Highway," according to the prosecutors.
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https://abcnews.go.com/US/racial-texts-social-media-posts-read-hearing-suspects/story?id=74168492
 
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lobosrul5 said:
Well yes... I agree :confused:

ETA: oh wait, reading upthread, now I see. You really, REALLY(?!), believe these rednecks would've done the same had Arbery been white? Come on.
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I can't speak for Georgia, I've never lived there, but in my own rural area, people usually don't care what color the people stealing from them are. Do you honestly believe that the murderers would have said to each other "Look, there's that guy that's been seen nosing around stealing stuff! Man, if he wasn't white I'd do something about it!"?

Note: I'm not claiming that Arbery was guilty of theft or anything else, merely accepting the murderers POV for the sake of argument.

The only influence Arbery's race has on the story that I know of for sure is that if he had been white, we would have never heard his name. It would have been a two day story in the local Georgia papers and maybe got a minute and half on the local news.

But at the end of the day, other posters have been right to point out that it doesn't matter in the slightest what Arbery was doing. If you think that someone is stealing from you or your neighbors, call the ******* cops! Don't confront them, don't hold them at gunpoint, sure as hell don't shoot them. Call the police, it's their job to deal with stuff like that.
 
cmikes said:
I can't speak for Georgia, I've never lived there, but in my own rural area, people usually don't care what color the people stealing from them are. Do you honestly believe that the murderers would have said to each other "Look, there's that guy that's been seen nosing around stealing stuff! Man, if he wasn't white I'd do something about it!"?
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They wouldn't have said that.

They *miight* however, have said "there's that coon/******/thug that's always running around stealing, let's get him!" while simply thinking nothing of random white people walking around the construction site, jogging, and so on. This is pretty much exactly how racism in cases like these will work - one group is assumed to be innocent, and the other guilty, based on their perceived race.
 
smartcooky said:
Two things worth noting...

The fact that Greg McMichael asked Larry English for surveillance camera footage is very, very suspicious, and shows intent on the part of the McMichaels. Their chase down of Arbery looks like it was premeditated - and they were just waiting for an opportunity to confront him.
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Only if English was asked to provide video of black guys. Couldn't it be equally plausible that they had seen white people, or unknown race people creeping around the site? How are you so sure they meant Arbery, or anyone for that matter, specifically?
 
Thermal said:
And yet again, you forgot to read. The .357 didn't get drawn till after the shotgun was firing. No reason to think Arbery even knew about it.
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Yes, until then it was just the normal, low stakes chase where 3 men in two trucks repeatedly attempt to force a runner to stop for questioning, including at least one incident where the truck struck the runner.

I think Arbery understood that he was in dire physical danger well before his murderer stepped out the cab with a shotgun, but we'll not really know because the only person who can tell us is dead.
 
Maybe they were just really, really big fans of Forrest Gump and were trying to recreate the opening scene.
 
Thermal said:
And yet again, you forgot to read. The .357 didn't get drawn till after the shotgun was firing. No reason to think Arbery even knew about it.
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You cannot possibly determine that for certain.

This chase went on for over 7 minutes, very little of which was actually caught on video. We know that the older McMichael had the .357 from the very start of the chase, and we only have the word of the suspects (because they murdered the only other witness) that he only drew it then

Therefore, your statement "No other guns were out at that point.. " is pure unverifiable speculation on your part. We know for sure that the older McMichael was carrying the .357, and we only have his word for it that he didn't brandish it at some point earlier in the chase.
 
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"Son keep that shotgun on the colored boy while we run him down in our pickup. I'd take out my pistol but I don't escalate the situation or anything."
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Yes, until then it was just the normal, low stakes chase where 3 men in two trucks repeatedly attempt to force a runner to stop for questioning, including at least one incident where the truck struck the runner.
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Come on, man. You're free-floating the argument, now. We were talking about how many men and guns were out in the "armed skirmish line". One guy, one gun. Nothing else shown.

And being hit by a truck is not proven, and contradicted by testimony being cherry-picked to fit the confirmation bias.

I think Arbery understood that he was in dire physical danger well before his murderer stepped out the cab with a shotgun, but we'll not really know because the only person who can tell us is dead.
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Entirely possible, and unfortunately for absolutely all, the last part very true.
 
smartcooky said:
You cannot possibly determine that for certain.

This chase went on for over 7 minutes, very little of which was actually caught on video. We know that the older McMichael had the .357 from the very start of the chase, and we only have the word of the suspects (because they murdered the only other witness) that he only drew it then

Therefore, your statement "No other guns were out at that point.. " is pure unverifiable speculation on your part. We know for sure that the older McMichael was carrying the .357, and we only have his word for it that he didn't brandish it at some point earlier in the chase.
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...which would be 100% pure made-up speculation on your part. But don't let that slow your roll.

Btw, the obviously implied "as far as we know/ based on available evidence" should be obvious enough to adults, and need not be put in at every single ******* statement. Among adults arguing, anyway.
 
JoeMorgue said:
"Son keep that shotgun on the colored boy while you all is a-driving said pickup, but make sure y'all makes it invisible for the repeated times the truck passes surveillance footage, while we run him down in our pickup the pickup you are driving. I'd take out my pistol but I don't escalate the situation or anything."
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FTFY
 
RolandRat said:
Really? Seems kinda weird to me. At the end of the day its' still private property and you have no right to be there.
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That's true, sure. In a legal sense, a non-owner has no right to be on private property belonging to someone else.

On the other hand... there's no situation in which trespassing on a neighbor's property grants license to a non-owner to chase down and kill the trespasser.

So... I'm not really sure why it matters that he was trespassing.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
They didn't kill him because he was trespassing. They killed him because they assumed, with no credible evidence, he was a serial thief.
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I have said this before:
The only difference between this and a 1950s-style lynching is that in this case, they only accused him of theft from a white person, and not raping a white woman.

Otherwise, it's the same.

Lynching is as lynching does.
 
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