SezMe
post-pre-born
Good work, smartcooky. I do believe that is the one. If not, it's just fine for the purpose of my post, which was to emphasize the scale of the problem Trump left behind.
The Biden Presidency
- Thread starter alfaniner
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Good work, smartcooky. I do believe that is the one. If not, it's just fine for the purpose of my post, which was to emphasize the scale of the problem Trump left behind.
SezMe
post-pre-born
You need to readjust your blinders. Set them to the narrowest possible setting and adjust the hue to "pinko". Then all will make sense.
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Perhaps you were, but that interpretation doesn't follow very well from what you were responding to.
In my experience? Yes, most progressives aren't notably unreasonable.
Rather than invoking the concept of a silent majority, I much more strongly suspect that there's a distinct selection or identification bias on your side, where you're pretty much making "unreasonable" and the like as one of the primary means of identifying who is a progressive, likely as a carry over from associating Bernie Bros with progressives.
Not really, it's far too small a sample size in question to justify that, and nowhere close to as shared a view as you seem to want to imply.
To run down a list, though, of notable participants in this little topic...
SuburbanTurkey - Presented information about the current state of things, showed anger and misplaced blame.
Captain Swoop, Bob001, and myself - sought to add context and clarification. The current situation is bad and anger is reasonably warranted, but blame should go where it should go.
JoeMorgue - went for a cheap shot and tried to claim that Progressives ARE Trumpers, which I did and do thoroughly reject.
Delphic Oracle - Not happy with the current state of things either and seemed like he didn't want discussion to stay focused on why things are the way they are so much as where do we go from here and how to solve it
wareyin - tried to nitpick my rejection of JoeMorgue's attempt to claim that Progressives ARE Trumpers with terrible arguments.
Delvo - Expressed that he wants more specifics about what, exactly, is actually being done to try to deal with the bad situation.
So, wareyin, of all the participants, ONLY SuburbanTurkey was being unreasonable on the supposedly "progressive" side, on examination. That isn't even remotely even the majority of self-identified progressives in this thread that you seem like you're trying to move the goalpost to. On the other hand, both you and JoeMorgue decided to try to unreasonably bash progressives using false premises. I would have much more basis to observe that moderates deserve a swift, hard kick in the butt for their actions than you have towards progressives.
Which pretty much begs the question... at that point, what was the actual situation? If the Obama Administration later did good things with regards to LGBT issues that doesn't necessarily make a bad grade before those things were done any less fair or reasonable at the time.
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Delvo
Дэлво Δε&#
Well, what else would be expected from two camps where one is defined by wanting people's lives and living conditions improved as much as possible and the other is defined by joining with the Republicans in wanting to fight against that?
One of these is inherently based on a hostile, hateful mentality, and the other is the opposite; it's only logically consistent & coherent for the hostile, hateful side to present arguments consisting merely of hostility & hatred.
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I'm actually rather impressed by the Biden administration so far. Just to bluntly go for reconcialiation with the Covid relief was such a right choice. And then to follow that up with a gigantic infrastructure package partially financed with tax hikes for the millionaires and billionaires - that is so unlike Obama's apologetic proposals that already started as compromises... Obviously Obama had good reasons for moderation, but if you extend a hand to the modern Republican Party, it will simply get bitten off. They are a radicalized, irrational extremist party that is so obviously not interested in any compromise. Biden has so far been such a positive surprise.
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Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
100% agreed.
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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Lauren Boebert tweeted
@laurenboebert
What’s in Biden’s “infrastructure” plan? Massive subsides for wind, solar, electric vehicles and other Green New Deal mandates. $85 billion for mass transit, $213 billion for “energy-efficient” housing, $35 billion for climate change, $25 billion for racial and gender inequities.
@laurenboebert
What’s in Biden’s “infrastructure” plan? Massive subsides for wind, solar, electric vehicles and other Green New Deal mandates. $85 billion for mass transit, $213 billion for “energy-efficient” housing, $35 billion for climate change, $25 billion for racial and gender inequities.
wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
If you think Delvo and Delphic Oracle are not being unreasonable towards the Biden administration (i.e. complaining that they should be doing things they're already doing, claiming Biden hates the left, etc) I don't know what to say. As for CaptainSwoop and Bob001, I hadn't seen them claim to be progressives. So, by my count it's SuburbanTurkey, Delvo, Delphic Oracle being unreasonable, and you opposing. 3-1 is definitely a majority, but even adding the other 2 you claim are progressive, half of the progressives are being unreasonable and only one progressive is pushing back on some of it.
Delvo
Дэлво Δε&#
I do not believe that "gigantic" and "massive" are accurate descriptions. It's about a third to a fifth of the low ends of ranges that have been given as estimates of what's needed. Are those who say that what he's proposing is very large saying those estimates of the need have been overstated?
Oh well, and how many times more than only recently was seen barely feasible? In a perfect world public inventment would be on a wholly different level, but in a perfect world one Donald Trump would be so far from being elected to a school board, not to say to the presidency and leadership of the free world.
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
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Okay, was that supposed to make us like it or hate it?
The arguments are becoming so weird I think I need a scorecard to keep track of which side is making them.
Thanks for spreadin' the good news out, Lauren!
gnome
Penultimate Amazing
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Notice the scare quotes around "infrastructure" and "energy-efficient". That will clue you in.
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
To be clear, when the issue at hand is, first and foremost, the discussion at hand, it's only fair to actually look at what's being said on the topic at hand and who is actually behaving badly. Seeking information and/or stating what information would satisfy while holding doubts is not unreasonable, regardless, especially when there is plenty of cause to be wary based on the past. In this discussion, only SuburbanTurkey was being unreasonable among the "progressives" and there was no unreasonable consensus overall, despite your repeated attempt to imply that there was as part of your fallacious attempt to bash on progressives. Secondly, as I had noted previously, your claimed approach to making determinations about progressives based solely on the participants in this thread is fundamentally untrustworthy given sample size, before getting to other issues. Thirdly, in a completely different direction, the attitudes that you, JoeMorgue, SuburbanTurkey, and Delvo (after my last post) have expressed are actively harmful to the Democratic Party, with the "moderate" side that's held much more power having repeatedly worked in real life to outright sabotage the party in recent times to try to prevent progressives from getting elected and, if elected despite that, to neuter them. As a very striking recent example, the Democratic Party in Nevada quit rather than work under a progressive that outdid them. Going beyond that, the seemingly constant drumbeat of "support us if you want to win, because we definitely wouldn't support you" sentiments that have been expressed by moderates to progressives have been more than a little grating.
In that list, I wasn't claiming that anyone in particular was progressive or not, as should have been clear from my wording. I was giving a very basic run down of the participants in this particular discussion and what they were saying, with the main issue of note being who was acting badly and in what way.
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wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
To poke at this: In general seeking information is not unreasonable, but there are certainly unreasonable ways of seeking information, and it is unreasonable to castigate the Biden administration for not providing information that they have in fact provided but you didn't bother to look for.
So no, you are not accurately describing the discussion at hand.
In a discussion about what constitutes the majority of progressives, padding the numbers with people you now aren't claiming to be progressives is not a good look.
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
And in this discussion, the only one that castigated the Biden Administration was SuburbanTurkey, if you actually read what was said.
Similarly, blaming others for your failure to comprehend what was said is not a good look. Nor, of course, is your attempt to present the "<snipped the popular progressive 'we supported you even if we kept telling everyone to vote for your opponent, so not giving us everything we want is going to tear apart the Democratic party' rant>" lie.
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wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
Yeah, we're just going to have to disagree that saying Biden hates the left, or the Biden administration needs to be doing all this stuff that they're actually already doing but I didn't look before I said that is unreasonable, then.
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Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
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And she thinks all that is bad. 
It's so unfortunate the GOP has chosen to demonize any alternative energy and any mitigation for the COVID pandemic.
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bruto
Penultimate Amazing
I'm sure Boebert feels it's unfair to compare Biden's infrastructure plan to Trump's. That's water over the bridge, after all.
gabeygoat
Master Poster
Haha, took me a second
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