Russian apartment bombings of 1999

[Allen773]

Was reading about this one today. Awfully suspicious. All the time spent on trying to prove that 9/11 was an inside job/false flag attack by the US government - meanwhile, the Russian apartment buildings of 1999 stink to high heaven.

I suppose Putin’s Russia is considered “anti-imperialist” compared to the US...

 

[Foster Zygote]

I watched a Frontline piece on this some years ago. Frontline is known for its investigative journalism, and for digging deep for facts. The case they presented was alarming. Yeltsin wanted to retire with all his loot, but he needed to be sure that his successor would run the kleptocracy the way he wanted, which basically meant not coming after him for all his corruption. Putin was little known on the national scene, but his work for the mayor of St. Petersburg demonstrated that he was just the sort of guy Yeltsin needed to succeed him. The bombings, tough talk from Putin, and subsequent invasion catapulted him to national fame before the election.

 

[Allen773]

I watched a Frontline piece on this some years ago. Frontline is known for its investigative journalism, and for digging deep for facts. The case they presented was alarming. Yeltsin wanted to retire with all his loot, but he needed to be sure that his successor would run the kleptocracy the way he wanted, which basically meant not coming after him for all his corruption. Putin was little known on the national scene, but his work for the mayor of St. Petersburg demonstrated that he was just the sort of guy Yeltsin needed to succeed him. The bombings, tough talk from Putin, and subsequent invasion catapulted him to national fame before the election.

Interesting. Maybe I can find that Frontline doc - they archive their material online.

 

[Axxman300]

Interesting. Maybe I can find that Frontline doc - they archive their material online.

Here:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-way/transcript/


I'm staying out of this one because Russia gives me a headache. But I will say this: Had the Chechens been behind the attacks we'd know because they were always happy to rub Moscow's nose in their failures.

 

[Venom]

Some good books on this event:

FSB Explodes Russia by Yuri Felshtinsky, Alexander Litvinenko
The Less You Know, The Better You Sleep: Russia's Road to Terror and Dictatorship under Yeltsin and Putin by David Satter
The Moscow Bombings of September 1999 by John B. Dunlop

David Satter has remarked that he suspects Boris Berezovsky of being the originator of the plot. He was instrumental in Putin's rise to power because he was the one who recommended him to Yeltsin as Prime Minister. After Berezovsky fled to the UK, he openly stated that Russia's security forces were behind the bombings. If it's true that he came up with the plot, this is some serious 3D chess he played against Putin.

 

[Venom]

I'm staying out of this one because Russia gives me a headache. But I will say this: Had the Chechens been behind the attacks we'd know because they were always happy to rub Moscow's nose in their failures.

A morbidly amusing story I heard about the Beslan school siege is the Islamist rebel leader saying he'd take credit for the bombings if Putin pulled Russian forces out of Chechnya.

 

[Childlike Empress]

David Satter has remarked that he suspects Boris Berezovsky of being the originator of the plot. He was instrumental in Putin's rise to power because he was the one who recommended him to Yeltsin as Prime Minister. After Berezovsky fled to the UK, he openly stated that Russia's security forces were behind the bombings. If it's true that he came up with the plot, this is some serious 3D chess he played against Putin.

Litvinenko, the author of the "conspiracy theory" book you mention, was Berezovsky's long time driver and lackey btw. I don't know who David Satter is but I also think Berezovsky, if it was not the work of mad chechens, was behind the bombings. He was at that time some equivalent of "National Intelligence Director", after all. And I think he was behind the killing of Litvinenko as well. So does Litvinenko's father. Berezovsky was a very sinister man. I always wonder (not really) why his "suicide" is never mentioned in the long list of Putin's evil deeds.

 

[Childlike Empress]

[Berezovsky] was instrumental in Putin's rise to power because he was the one who recommended him to Yeltsin as Prime Minister. After Berezovsky fled to the UK [...]

Just for people who know nothing about these events - Putin was a nobody to the public at the time, and there was a serious and well-known candidate, IIRC Primakov, running for President against the interests of the so-called "Jelzin family" - which was the senile Jelzin, his daughter and a bunch of oligarchs with Berezovsky being the most aggressive one.

So Berezovsky used his vast media empire to introduce Putin to the Russians in a huge campaign.

Which worked.

And then Putin turned out to be not the puppet they wanted, told them to stay out of politics or else. Which led to Berezovsky fleeing to London where he plotted against Putin for the rest of his life.

 

[Venom]

Litvinenko, the author of the "conspiracy theory" book you mention, was Berezovsky's long time driver and lackey btw.

Litvinenko was once ordered to kill Berezovsky. Dishonest to call him his lackey, but more of a tentative ally after the latter had a falling out with Putin.

...And I think he was behind the killing of Litvinenko as well. So does Litvinenko's father. Berezovsky was a very sinister man. I always wonder (not really) why his "suicide" is never mentioned in the long list of Putin's evil deeds.

Errr... no. . But his odious reputation did make it easy for everyone to dismiss his accusations.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Litvinenko was once ordered to kill Berezovsky.

LOLWUT? I assume the "evidence" for this are Litvinenko's own words while he was in service for Berezovsky. He lived in a nice house in London next to one of those Chechen Islamist gang leaders, btw. Both houses owned by BB.

 

[Venom]

To be clear, Satter's point is that it's very unlikely that Berezovsky or anyone in Yeltsin's circle could have planned an act like this without Putin's knowledge; Prime Minister Putin was very much part of the propaganda effort in Chechnya during and after the bombings. He rode fighter jets, met with grieving families, spoke on the radio and TV about how he would destroy the "Chechen rebels" who committed the act.

When Berezovsky pointed the finger at Putin and the security services, what was Putin supposed to do? Say that it was Berezovsky's idea? (contradicting his entire war campaign) Putin had to keep his mouth shut and he mostly did when the topic was brought up.

 

[Childlike Empress]

To be clear, Satter's point is that it's very unlikely that Berezovsky or anyone in Yeltsin's circle could have planned an act like this without Putin's knowledge; Prime Minister Putin was very much part of the propaganda effort in Chechnya during and after the bombings. He rode fighter jets, met with grieving families, spoke on the radio and TV about how he would destroy the "Chechen rebels" who committed the act.

Satter's point is nonsense. Look up the list of prime ministers at the time. They changed quicker than defense ministers under Trump. Putin was just another fill-in with no power base. Same with his previous position as FSB leader. That was also for a very short time, and after he had spent the whole 90s with other stuff. He wasn't the "KGB career offical" like it is claimed in "western" propaganda.

What you say about "prime minister Putin's involvement" is part of the propaganda campaign I've mentioned, run by BB and other oligarchs. They were creating their worst nightmare.

 

[Venom]

LOLWUT? I assume the "evidence" for this are Litvinenko's own words while he was in service for Berezovsky. He lived in a nice house in London next to one of those Chechen Islamist gang leaders, btw. Both houses owned by BB.

No. He and other FSB dropouts claimed this in the 1998 meeting where this picture was taken that is used in the news all the time. Way before he got cozy with Berezovsky and before either man left the country.

[IMGw=400]https://static01.nyt.com/images/2006/12/03/world/03spy.600.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale[/IMGw]

Can't be bothered to find video of the exact conference or the translated transcript I once had right now.

 

[Childlike Empress]

From the wikpedia article about Litvinenko:

Litvinenko met Boris Berezovsky in 1994 when he took part in investigations into an assassination attempt on the oligarch. He later was responsible for the oligarch's security.[15] Litvinenko's employment under Berezovsky and other security services created a conflict of interest, but such practice is usually tolerated by the Russian state.[15]

There you have it.

edit: And from the Berezovsky article:

In 1994, Berezovsky was the target of a car bombing incident, but survived the assassination attempt, in which his driver was killed and he himself was injured.[36] Alexander Litvinenko led the FSB investigation into the incident and linked the crime to the resistance of the Soviet-era AvtoVaz management to Berezovsky's growing influence in the Russian automobile market.[37]

So I was completely correct in assuming that the claim that Litvinenko was ordered to kill Berezovsky came out of his own mouth while he was the lackey of Berezovsky, four years after he led the investigation into the event and claimed something completely different.

 

[Venom]

Satter's point is nonsense. Look up the list of prime ministers at the time. They changed quicker than defense ministers under Trump. Putin was just another fill-in with no power base. Same with his previous position as FSB leader. That was also for a very short time, and after he had spent the whole 90s with other stuff. He wasn't the "KGB career offical" like it is claimed in "western" propaganda.

What you say about "prime minister Putin's involvement" is part of the propaganda campaign I've mentioned, run by BB and other oligarchs. They were creating their worst nightmare.

His KGB cred might be a tad overblown in the Western imagination, but this is a guy who voluntarily tried to enlist with the thugs in his teens. But that's besides the point.

LOL like I said, Putin was involved in the war propaganda and it's documented on film. It was in the news. Now if you suspect it was Berezovsky who came up with the idea, you've got to wonder what Putin's theatrics were all about

 

[Childlike Empress]

LOL like I said, Putin was involved in the war propaganda and it's documented on film. It was in the news. Now if you suspect it was Berezovsky who came up with the idea, you've got to wonder what Putin's theatrics were all about

He wanted to become president and kick these scumbags out of the country. Which he did.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Venom, you obviously know the basics, but for those who don't I always recommend this UK TV documentary "The rise and fall of the Russian oligarchs":

 

[Venom]

A short film on the bombings, particularly on the independent investigation of Mikhail Trepashkin on the first of the two bombings in Moscow.

Trepashkin was a former KGB and FSB officer who was assigned by an independent body, the Kovalyev Commission, to do his own investigation on the bombings. He was arrested (framed) and jailed twice in 2003 and 2005 until his release in late 2007. Some speculate that he was jailed for investigating the 2002 Moscow theater siege, an incident with its own share of questionable events. Many members of the Commission have died under mysterious circumstances.

https://archive.org/details/Disbelief2004

 

[Allen773]

He wanted to become president and kick these scumbags out of the country. Which he did.

Yes, and then put his own scumbags into power.

 

[Foster Zygote]

And when more explosives were found in a fifth apartment building and defused, the FSB didn't even deny having put them there. They just claimed that it was part of a training exercise. Who the **** conducts a training exercise with live explosives in a building packed with civilians?