Ed Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories....

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Caroline13 said:
"I just viewed a "cartoon" type and a Young Woman is Asking 2 Amish Men why the Covid isn't affecting you people much, and the Reply from the Old Amish Men: We don't have TV"
Of course, it occurs to those of us with the ability to think for ourselves, that the probable reason for Covid not affecting the Amish is their complete isolation from the rest of humanity... they are effectively in a sort of self-imposed lockdown.

That this didn't occur to you speaks volumes

In any case there was an outbreak in the Ohio Amish Community

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6945a2.htm

"The Amish in Wayne County are part of the Greater Holmes County Area Settlement, which has the largest population of Amish in Ohio (36,955 in 2020). Traditionally, the Amish limit engagement with the government, the non-Amish health care system, and modern medicine, except in acute events that affect the wider community, such as a 2014 measles outbreak in an Ohio Amish community, and prefer an herbal or natural approach to well-being.

The high SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates from the May 20 testing clinic and findings from the interviews highlighted the extent and probable reasons for community transmission and served to increase participants’ awareness of COVID-19. After the testing clinic, an additional 39 persons from the community received tests by June 28, after experiencing COVID-19–compatible symptoms or having close contact with a person with COVID-19. Among the 39 persons whose specimens were tested, 25 (67%) received positive test results, suggesting ongoing community transmission.

Amish communities emphasize strong social connections and communal activities. The importance of religious and social gatherings and communal fellowship among the Amish has challenged efforts to prevent infection during the COVID-19 pandemic. Six religious and social gatherings were reported in this community; such gatherings have been shown to lead to SARS-CoV-2 outbreaks. To help limit transmission within other Amish communities, public health officials recommended five strategies to local health departments. First, health departments should continue to build trusting relationships with Amish community institutions and leaders. Second, health education materials should be provided through local networks. The Amish rarely use electronic communication; however, well-established Amish media networks (newspapers and radio stations), local Amish steering committees (serving as liaisons to various government levels), and Amish- and non-Amish–owned businesses with Amish employees can help share COVID-19 prevention messages. Third, messages using culturally acceptable language emphasizing protection of family and community might help persuade community members to apply these strategies. Fourth, access to testing services needs to be timely and convenient, with active support from community leaders. Fifth, health departments and the community should continually share information and concerns about mitigation strategies and barriers to their use. Establishing points of contact within communities might allow health department staff members to promptly share updated or new information."

The Amish community's isolation is somewhat analogous to a computer firewall. It acts to keep out the bad actor, but once the firewall is breached, if the protection is not up to scratch, they are in trouble.
 
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Typical anti-vaxxer: goes running for the Amish when the heat is on. Lying about them as usual since it is unlikely an Amish person is going to be on the internet to counter their utter BS.

I’m PA Dutch descent (not Amish) and I gotta say they’d be sick of you pandemic advocates trying to use them.
 
Oh, the gang here doesn't have a Bias?????

Most of us value evidence-based medicine, which you reject in favor of unsupported kook opinions. Most people wouldn't call a preference for tested, practical solutions to be a bias, but I'm not surprised that you do.
 
To be fair, we all have biases. That’s an inescapable part of being human.

The difference is that philosophical and scientific skepticism consist of a set or principals, guidelines, and concepts specifically designed to limit the effects of that bias on conclusions.

Things like double-blind testing, repeatability, statistical analysis, falsifiability, using quantifiable measures whenever possible, clear predictions made before experiments, rather than post hoc data mining after the fact.

All of these are things not evidenced by those relying on n=1 studies, or accepting poorly supported research just because it agrees with pre-conceptions.

There is room for debate and disagreement, but in factual matters it needs to be backed by good, consistent evidence, not opinion pieces.


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I love the way they misinterpret Fauci's comments re PCR tests where he's referring to the detection of viable virus. RT counts of over 30 mean that it's hard to culture live virus. This is well known. Even when a PCR test is positive with CT counts of 25 the vast majority of detected RNA segments are not from a complete virus. They are fragments after it's been chopped up by the immune response. The reason they set high CT limits is to see if someone has gotten Covid-19, not that they may be active spreaders. About 40% of spread occurs before a person even has any symptoms and that has been the unusual aspect of Covid-19. Further, symptoms start mild and very often many days have passed before a person seeks to be tested or shows up at a hospital and is tested. There is a high likelihood that the person is no longer expressing significant amounts of live virus. And people, if they get get seriously ill, it may be a week or two later. Fortunately, virus fragments stick around a lot longer and the PCR test checks for those small RNA fragments that are specific to the disease. So the purpose of setting a high CT threshold is to detect whether the person has been infected with the Covid-19 virus.

Also, there is considerable variation in CT counts from any two samples so even if the threshold was set low it can't be used as a proxy for how infections a person is. It is, however, useful as an indication a person may be more likely to be infectious.

People die from the damage done early by the virus and the immune system's reaction trying to clean things up including all the hijacked dead cells left behind by the virus.














love
 
I'm biased towards evidence-based medicine, because I have seen it work time, and time and time again. I have experienced it working time, and time and time again.

I'm biased against all but a tiny fraction of homeopathetic* woo woo because I have seen it fail time and time again, I have lost friends who embraced woo woo quackery, where traditional, evidence-based medicine would probably have saved them. In my view, they died unnecessarily.

So yeah, I'm biased when it comes to medicine, and wear that bias as a badge of honour.

IMO, before any homeopathic remedies are allowed to be sold "across the counter" they should be required to have FDA approval, i.e. undergo clinical trials and have to meet the same rigorous scientific standards of testing that evidence-based medicine does... that is, actual laboratory testing, clinical trials with double blind tests etc. The woo woo snake-oil merchants should be in favor of this; would they not want their customers to be confident in their products; sure that what they are putting into or onto their bodies has been tested and shown to be safe and efficacious?

In fact, they object to official testing. Why? Because they know their fake cures will fail, and fail miserably.



*typo intentional
 
Almost 3 million out of about 7.7 Billion worldwide population. Small number.

If you suddenly came down with COVID-19 and were killed by it, would there be anyone to mourn your passing? Brothers and sisters? Children and grandchildren? Nieces and nephews? Yes, 3 million people out of 7.7 billion is a relatively small number, but when it's you or someone close to you, it's suddenly a lot more relevant.
 
Oh, the gang here doesn't have a Bias?????

I want you to know that I spent a good chunk of my time recovering from the vaccine side effects of a day and a half on You Tube reporting for misinformation a number of videos discussing grape seed extract and Covid. I reported a number of them for Covid disinformation and You Tube took some down. I just wanted you to know that people won't see the nonsense you believe in because you came here and I was annoyed by you so I helped with others to take down videos supporting your message.
 
Kooks keep spreading their lies, and people who believe them put their health at risk.

Few Facts, Millions Of Clicks: Fearmongering Vaccine Stories Go Viral Online [npr.org]
A new NPR analysis finds that articles connecting vaccines and death have been among the most highly engaged with content online this year, going viral in a way that could hinder people's ability to judge the true risk in getting a shot.

The findings also illustrate a broader trend in online misinformation: With social media platforms making more of an effort to take down patently false health claims, bad actors are turning to cherry-picked truths to drive misleading narratives.
 
Kooks keep spreading their lies, and people who believe them put their health at risk.

Few Facts, Millions Of Clicks: Fearmongering Vaccine Stories Go Viral Online [npr.org]

While it's a great article, They made one striking blunder:

Among the more than 85 million people in the U.S. who have now received at least one vaccination shot, less than .0018% of shot recipients have died sometime afterward.

It's obviously quite a bit higher than that just from unrelated causes with a quick, sanity check.

I suspect they pulled that out of the VAERS reports which only report adverse events within a short time after death and is not anywhere near the time from all the vaccinations to the date of the report. Further the CDC indicates the reported deaths in a 2 week period are significantly under what would be expected from other causes so are likely missing many.
 
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Hey good to see the link and I'm sure some Amish have died from the C.V. but believe low numbers.

The total Amish population isn't exactly huge, so 'high' numbers wouldn't really be expected in the first place with a virus with an average likely fatality rate of about 0.6%. With that said, as the article mentioned, it's still been *quite* problematic.

With that said, have you learned anything about who's trustworthy from how very wrong said meme that you latched onto is? Anything at all about how and why to determine trustworthiness?

Oh, the gang here doesn't have a Bias?????

As has been poked at a couple times already, all humans have biases. One of the most important parts of critical thinking is to try to understand one's own biases and compensate for such to try to remove them from the equation as much as possible, albeit as imperfectly as one can. Once that's done, it tends to become much, much easier to catch disinformation. You've been passing along a lot of what should have been easily caught disinformation and a bunch of poor understandings of the subject material, as things stand. In both cases, working to compensate for your biases would fairly certainly help quite a bit.
 
As has been poked at a couple times already, all humans have biases. One of the most important parts of critical thinking is to try to understand one's own biases and compensate for such to try to remove them from the equation as much as possible, albeit as imperfectly as one can.
As all sceptics know one of the ways our unconscious biases can trip us up most easily is our natural tendancy to look only for data that supports our chosen beliefs, and the best way to compensate for that bias is to collect data dispassionately and analyse it statistically. Someone who disdains numbers in favour of anecdotes is never going to be able to distinguish between information and disinformation.
 
:rolleyes:

Thanks for admitting that you've fallen for disinformation again, just because it matches your bias.

Covid-19 did not spare US Amish communities

Hey good to see the link and I'm sure some Amish have died from the C.V. but believe low numbers.

You haven't read the articles then, because it's not low numbers.

an article Caroline13 clearly didn't read said:
Because the Amish are such a tight knit community, and because they have largely ignored all safety protocols among themselves, they have experienced a much higher than average Covid-19 infection rate....
He said the medical center has seen many cases of Covid-19 among Amish patients, including deaths. He noted that while infections are high, death rates from the virus are lower because “their older people live with family and extended family and not in old people’s homes, and usually maintain a healthier lifestyle.”

However, most Covid-19 cases go unreported in Amish communities due to wariness of outside “meddling,”

Much as Trump survived by having access to better medical care than most Americans, the Amish have avoided excess deaths by not being in care homes, which have been a hotbed of infections from the beginning.
It is also well-known that having a healthy lifestyle is healthy. No-one is disputing that, Caroline13.
What is being disputed is your insistence, sans evidence, that Covid is being exaggerated to further the interests of US Democrats and ((other groups)).

Oh, the gang here doesn't have a Bias?????

There is no 'gang' here, Caroline13. I, and others, have tried, patiently and politely, to educate you on subjects like confirmation bias: you have sniffily dismissed all these attempts, and persist in trying to portray to opposition to your woefully inept and unsubstantiated 'arguments' as a result of personal bias, rather than a justifiable reaction to woefully inept and unsubstantiated 'arguments'.
As an example: do you now accept that there have been high numbers of cases among the Amish, or will your personal cognitive biases prevent you from doing so?

By the way, as a consequence of their opposition to modern medicine, most of the Amish take supplements. By your argument, there should be few, if not no, cases of Covid in their communities. This is not the case. How do you explain this?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...rder Amish take,mineral supplement use is not.
 
I just viewed a "cartoon" type ... sure wish I could publish this gem.

So frustrating. Someone should invent a kind of inter-net so I can show people propaganda I agree with.
 
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